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Deleted User
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22:01 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
dgeneratio said:
bluenose1872 said:
How about the idea i ran past James, he has not responded yet as this thread is non stop just now haha

6 v 6 lower rounds (90 points possible)
8 v 8 semi final (120 points available)
12 v 12 final (180 points possible)

I think it could work and more people would be intrested in the cup, and the final would just be best of the best to be honest!

so people know if its tied the rules cover this, the most individual winners goes through.


1 extra person from each clan playing in the lower rounds achieves nothing!! 9/15 players still don't get to play in it that way.
Everyone is saying it should be 8 v 8 up to the final and 12 v 12 in the final has gone down well.
Why give less people chance to play? There hasn't been a valid argument for it that i've seen?!
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,969
22:02 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
cphaynes said:
10 fixtures for each division so 5 fixture sets

Schedule:

(6/11/11 - 20/11/11)

Fixture Set 1 (fixtures 1+2)
Cup Round 1

(20/11/11 - 04/12/11)

Fixture Set 2 (fixtures 3+4)

(04/12/11 - 18/12/11)

Fixture Set 3 (fixtures 5)
Cup Quarter Final

(18/12/11 - 01/01/12)

Fixture Set 4 (fixture 6+7) Div 1 not Div 2 but then there is a massive 2 week gap for Div 2.

(01/01/12 - 15/01/12)

Fixture Set 5 (fixture 8)
Cup Semi Final

(15/01/12 - 05/02/12)

Fixture Set 6 (fixture 9+10)
Cup Final

^^^^
How about in the middle of the season play a Div 2 game on an alternate week to a Div 1 games, e.g 1 week break for Div 2, then play (over the 2 weeks), the next week the Div 1 game will be finish, start a new set for div 1, then the following week the Div 2 games will be done, and then a wait a week. Then conclude the games as normal for the rest of the season?

not sure, 10 fixtures for both with div 2 teams getting a BYE each fixture due to odd numbers seems ok to me, i know div 2 could finish earlier but with BYES in place we can finish both at same time
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,969
22:05 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
something ive been meaning to ask, do you want a 1 week break for xmas or should it run through? id probably be on here xmas day like but only towards the evening unless i did the fixtures the night before on christmas eve.
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
22:09 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
ipotalot said:
We need to get more people playing in the competition though otherwise there will continue to be no interest in it.
I don't know if you were around for the end of last season. The cup final was about the most controversial thing of the entire season!! The cup had great interest!

I love the 5 v 5 format, because it increases the randomness. A single poor result can doom one of the great clans.

This 12 v 12 is a horrendous idea in my opinion. It could easily be a massive blowout, where the last 3 or 4 fixtures are completely meaningless. I can also easily see it being decided by defaults...
In a 5v5 every single frame matters, which makes the games very exciting.

It has to be an odd number anyway, so that no ties are possible.

The good clans are better than the lower ones because they have great depth in player strength. Almost every clan has a couple of very good players, but once you get deeper, the "lower" clans will lack strength. A 5 v 5 allows for shock results.

I can only recommend it, because a similar concept has worked very well on snooker.
bluenose1872
bluenose1872
Posts: 22,512
22:09 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Lee it was in idea like i said in the post "idea".
Deleted User
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22:17 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Sure a lot of shock results would happen against dvz, beenjammin, tinie, cphaynes and perfect_play seb!
Last season's controversy wasn't a good thing...wasn't excitement of the cup was a farce.
A play off decider between 1 randomly drawn or 1 selected by captains from their clan in the extremely unlikely event of the draw would add excitement like a penalty shoot out does in football.
Same as any sport leagues reward the most consistent through a season, cups reward the best teams on the day....still teams though not the clans with the best couple of players.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,969
22:21 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
the rules already cover draws
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
22:27 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
I think the cup will become a lot more boring and predictable with larger fixtures.

ipotalot said:
Sure a lot of shock results would happen against dvz, beenjammin, tinie, cphaynes and perfect_play!
They can be beaten. More importantly, if it's 8v8, they'll just add eemad, sean_paul, and the_diamond, so yeah, smaller fixtures mean a single bad result can make the difference.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,969
22:31 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
plus its 15 frames so you would have time to fight back.

right im off for now, feel free to make a new thread if this one fills up.
Deleted User
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22:35 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
whocares8x8 said:
I think the cup will become a lot more boring and predictable with larger fixtures.

ipotalot said:
Sure a lot of shock results would happen against dvz, beenjammin, tinie, cphaynes and perfect_play!
They can be beaten. More importantly, if it's 8v8, they'll just add eemad, sean_paul, and the_diamond, so yeah, smaller fixtures mean a single bad result can make the difference.


Course they can be beaten but having to beat 4 out of the top 5 ranked players on the game and the other one that is only out of the top 5 because he hasn't been on here regularly recently to win can in no possible reality be seen as tilting the odds towards the underdogs....the total opposite.
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
22:39 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Did you read the rest of my post?
They'll just add 3 of the best players around to complete their eight!
It's easier to beat 5 of them than 8 of them!
Deleted User
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22:51 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
There is no difference whatsoever seb if anything it's harder we used MVP as an example but most of the top teams have 3, 4 or 5 really brilliant players and the rest very good by having it at 5 v 5 you're getting all really brilliant players very little chance of an upset.
We lost to the cobras by 1 frame in 1 match going their way last season in the league 8 v 8 so the chance of an upset is there either way and much more likely if it's seen as a team competition.
The main thing is getting more people playing in it for me and making it something to want to win...if only a 1/3 of the clan get to play in it how is the whole clan going to care about it?
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
23:02 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
I don't think there's any question that 5v5 is flukier than 8v8. That's why ab_rfc keeps calling it the Mickey Mouse Cup. Flukier = more chance at upset (just like 9 Arc).

Your argument about getting more players involved is valid.

It just depends what the clan runners want this cup to be.
It can involve a larger number of players like in the league. Drawbacks are that you'll have more predictable results with lower clans having little to no chance at an upset.

If you have smaller fixtures, luck and chance play a larger role (just like in real cup competitions) and upsets are more likely.

Both formats have advantages and disadvantages and they both work.

I would still make it an odd number (so if we increase it, it should be 7 or 9). The rules currently say that in the case of a tie (currently impossible), the winner is the clan with more individual winners. Those are likely to be equal when the score is tied.
A deciding extra match between captains throws off the schedule, because it takes time.
Just use an odd number- no problems will ever appear.
Deleted User
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23:23 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Don't think I have seen any real upsets at 5 v 5 in the last 2 seasons since i've been here and like I showed with us v cobras at 8 v 8 it's just as possible to get an upset...agree to differ on that one.
I like the idea of a play off personally, you never ever get draws anyway and a 1 v 1 game wouldn't take up any time...add a real bit of spice and with that bit of pressure you might well get an upset out of one.
ab_rfc
ab_rfc
Moderator
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23:33 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
My reasons for calling it the Mickey Mouse Cup has nothing to do with fluke or flukier, I've called it that since the cup started and they made it 5 v 5, I just think its a team event and the more players involved the better, as it is its no different than footballers having a game of 5 aside, bit of fun for some and not taken serious by many.
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
23:34 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Again, getting more players involved is an excellent argument.
But theoretically speaking, you're saying beating 8 of the best players is easier than beating 5 of the best players?? That makes no sense.
In a 5v5 if you get a single good result (say 10-5), you can potentially lose all the remaining games and still win the tie. In 8v8 you need several good results to cause an upset.

Say the semis end on Sunday, one game is tied. The final should start the next day (for the usual 1 week cup deadline), but can't start because the captains have to get together to play. If one is off for 2 days, that pushes everything back. If we do increase it, what's wrong with 7v7 or 9v9 lol? Avoids all problems. That's what everyone agreed on last time as well.

Last season's final was decided by 1 frame. During the regular clan league, there are usually a couple of ties per season.
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
23:42 Mon 24 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
The majority are obviously for the change to larger fixtures. I just personally like the randomness of it more.
bluenose1872
bluenose1872
Posts: 22,512
02:13 Tue 25 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Alot of reading
dextr
dextr
Posts: 5,250
02:16 Tue 25 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Same Squad at it too lol
bluenose1872
bluenose1872
Posts: 22,512
02:18 Tue 25 Oct 11 (BST)  [Link]  
That confused me haha
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