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Deleted User
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03:53 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
I gotta say I don't agree with the bonus points for golden breaks. Haven't they been lucky enough?
Now, the points for runouts: great idea


Agree with that rewarding skill is fair enough (although I have seen some amazingly flukey run outs) but someone can get outplayed and outclassed then 1 lucky shot win them 2 points.
Why have the same rules for this as FSL chris? You've got your comp which is geared towards the underdog why can't this be a decent knock out comp.
Deleted User
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09:28 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
Why have the same rules for this as FSL chris? You've got your comp which is geared towards the underdog why can't this be a decent knock out comp.


The main reason is posted earlier about trying to extend the games into a third game type so limiting, as far as possible, any argument that players lost because of the order of the game types and that they didnt get to play their 'favourite'.

The only way around that is to break up the game types to maybe rotate twice through them ie 12 games in total 2 of each and then 2 of each again. But that will still get complaints too I am sure.
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
10:37 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
Hey- you break off and pot, and leave a 1-9 combo hanging over the pocket. Takes as much skill as a golden break.
Deleted User
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10:42 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
Why have the same rules for this as FSL chris? You've got your comp which is geared towards the underdog why can't this be a decent knock out comp.


The main reason is posted earlier about trying to extend the games into a third game type so limiting, as far as possible, any argument that players lost because of the order of the game types and that they didnt get to play their 'favourite'.

The only way around that is to break up the game types to maybe rotate twice through them ie 12 games in total 2 of each and then 2 of each again. But that will still get complaints too I am sure.


Haha - no matter what you do, you'll get complaints! As you say Chris, this is a way to extend the games into a third game type.... A player could be in a position where by they've not had the run of the ball and have lost the pairing at 5-0 down. In this situation a runout would rescue the tie.
Deleted User
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10:44 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
Hey- you break off and pot, and leave a 1-9 combo hanging over the pocket. Takes as much skill as a golden break.


Exactly - if it was just luck we would all get run outs and GB's at the same average percentage rate per games played.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,966
11:03 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
golden breaks can be skill as well, in practice once i hit 3 UK golden breaks in a row and 7 that night in practice, runouts ive had about 6 during the day before.

since arcade come out though and the table resized i can't get close

long as you know where to aim then goldens are easy, same with runouts, one time it was the 9 ball golden break i had trouble with.
Deleted User
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11:18 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
I agree - the golden breaks do take skill, but considering the rack position is changed slightly each time you could not possibly knowingly adjust your breakoff shot to compensate. Therefore there is an eliment of luck. That said, some types of breakoff shots yield a high rate of golden breaks, so there is still an element of skill.
Deleted User
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11:59 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
Winning a proper frame requires more skill than a golden break and winning a tactical frame sometimes requires a lot more than a run out or golden break.
People play different ways, I can beat the best on here on all 3 types when i'm playing well but very rare I would go for a run out in UK especially. Unless you get a perfect split with everything open you're always relying on a little bit of luck with breaking balls out.
I don't see why people who play one way should get points for doing it in a knockout competition.
If you're 6-0 down after the first 6 games then you deserve to go out, you shouldn't be able to pull it back after getting battered in 2 out of 2 disciplines.
Deleted User
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13:00 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
If you're 6-0 down after the first 6 games you will go out no matter what!! Next?

And why should someone who is great at 9 Ball be necessarily punished simply because I decree in the rules that 9 Ball is the last game type to be played unless both players agree otherwise?

Edited at 13:03 Sun 04/03/12 (GMT)
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,966
13:07 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
i think we should promote more people to go for announcements tbh, right now in FCL theres no incentive to even try, i did bring an idea up about a bonus league (1 point for 7 balling, 9 ball gb, 2 points for 9us runout, 8US/UK gb 3 points for 8US/8UK runout) obviously those figures would be changed depending on difficulty but i do like the tactical game but i like the attacking game also.

in FCL this is only way we can do that, for each frame you win you get 1 point and for an announcement included = 2 so for a tie it needs to be 3-3 (or more depending on announcements) so if you won 6-0 and got an announcement each frame it would be 12-0 instead
Deleted User
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15:02 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
Winning a proper frame requires more skill than a golden break and winning a tactical frame sometimes requires a lot more than a run out or golden break.
People play different ways, I can beat the best on here on all 3 types when i'm playing well but very rare I would go for a run out in UK especially. Unless you get a perfect split with everything open you're always relying on a little bit of luck with breaking balls out.
I don't see why people who play one way should get points for doing it in a knockout competition.
If you're 6-0 down after the first 6 games then you deserve to go out, you shouldn't be able to pull it back after getting battered in 2 out of 2 disciplines.


I think the essence of what Chris is trying to achieve is to create incentive to finish playing the match even if you've lost the first discipline. To take the extreme example, if you were 5-0 down, then you could go all out for a runout. I know it might be different to your style of play and there's a chance it won't happen, but if you got it you'd be back in the game... Therefore incentive to play all/more disciplines has been achieved.
Deleted User
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15:06 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
i think we should promote more people to go for announcements tbh, right now in FCL theres no incentive to even try, i did bring an idea up about a bonus league (1 point for 7 balling, 9 ball gb, 2 points for 9us runout, 8US/UK gb 3 points for 8US/8UK runout) obviously those figures would be changed depending on difficulty but i do like the tactical game but i like the attacking game also.

in FCL this is only way we can do that, for each frame you win you get 1 point and for an announcement included = 2 so for a tie it needs to be 3-3 (or more depending on announcements) so if you won 6-0 and got an announcement each frame it would be 12-0 instead


What about a competition where only events are considered important! Say.... 3 games of each discipline, but only the games won with either a golden break, a runout or a 7 balling count as a win. Lmao, the competition could be called 'Do or Die'
Deleted User
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15:17 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
i think we should promote more people to go for announcements tbh, right now in FCL theres no incentive to even try, i did bring an idea up about a bonus league (1 point for 7 balling, 9 ball gb, 2 points for 9us runout, 8US/UK gb 3 points for 8US/8UK runout) obviously those figures would be changed depending on difficulty but i do like the tactical game but i like the attacking game also.

in FCL this is only way we can do that, for each frame you win you get 1 point and for an announcement included = 2 so for a tie it needs to be 3-3 (or more depending on announcements) so if you won 6-0 and got an announcement each frame it would be 12-0 instead


Leave FCL alone dgen jesus if chris wants to keep rewarding luck with his formats that's his perogative but don't try ruining FCL
Deleted User
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15:26 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  

I think the essence of what Chris is trying to achieve is to create incentive to finish playing the match even if you've lost the first discipline. To take the extreme example, if you were 5-0 down, then you could go all out for a runout. I know it might be different to your style of play and there's a chance it won't happen, but if you got it you'd be back in the game... Therefore incentive to play all/more disciplines has been achieved.


Clan players are entered we all play all formats regularly and we have FBL for specialists, this is under the FCL section for some ridiculous reason and was talked about as an FCL event to start with. If someone wins the first 5 out of 9 frames they deserve to win the match not lose because somebody has sat there watching videos of golden breaks on youtube and practising.
You get 3 points in football if you win a match not 5 points for winning with an overhead kick.
Deleted User
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15:49 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
Clan players are entered we all play all formats regularly and we have FBL for specialists, this is under the FCL section for some ridiculous reason and was talked about as an FCL event to start with. If someone wins the first 5 out of 9 frames they deserve to win the match not lose because somebody has sat there watching videos of golden breaks on youtube and practising.
You get 3 points in football if you win a match not 5 points for winning with an overhead kick.


The problem is - which games should be played first? That problem <<< is the reason for all this and that problem needs to be considered first.

Lets just say your best discipline is 8us and your worst is 8uk (just say). You get drawn to play against a player who is no.1 in 8uk and you play those (8uk) games first, losing 3-0. Next you play 9us losing 2-1. The match is over and you've not gotten to play your strongest discipline.

It is this scenario which creates a need to incentify players to continue playing all 9 games.
Deleted User
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16:06 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
If you play your opponents best discipline first and they are ranked number 1 in it they are as likely or more to get a run out or golden break in it, you could be 5-0 down after UK against someone like cool_dude, tinie or andyw1 on form or strikelucky8 who has sat there practising golden breaks off youtube.
Then you lose your 9 ball 2-1 and you can't even win with 2 runouts

Arguments kind of fall down there eh?

Another thought who is controlling who breaks?
I break first in UK play the 3
then I get first break in 9 ball so i've had 4 goes at a gb or run out my opponent has had 2
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,966
16:08 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
i think we should promote more people to go for announcements tbh, right now in FCL theres no incentive to even try, i did bring an idea up about a bonus league (1 point for 7 balling, 9 ball gb, 2 points for 9us runout, 8US/UK gb 3 points for 8US/8UK runout) obviously those figures would be changed depending on difficulty but i do like the tactical game but i like the attacking game also.

in FCL this is only way we can do that, for each frame you win you get 1 point and for an announcement included = 2 so for a tie it needs to be 3-3 (or more depending on announcements) so if you won 6-0 and got an announcement each frame it would be 12-0 instead


Leave FCL alone dgen jesus if chris wants to keep rewarding luck with his formats that's his perogative but don't try ruining FCL

jesus yourself lee, i said it was an idea i came up with a while ago i never said it was a current idea, if i wanted to present it as an idea then i would have posted in the discussion thread, also my post has a on end which equals sarcasm.

This Line:

for each frame you win you get 1 point and for an announcement included = 2 so for a tie it needs to be 3-3 (or more depending on announcements) so if you won 6-0 and got an announcement each frame it would be 12-0 instead

is whats current in chris's tournament.
Deleted User
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16:09 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
If you play your opponents best discipline first and they are ranked number 1 in it they are as likely or more to get a run out or golden break in it, you could be 5-0 down after UK against someone like cool_dude, tinie or andyw1 on form or strikelucky8 who has sat there practising golden breaks off youtube.
Then you lose your 9 ball 2-1 and you can't even win with 2 runouts

Arguments kind of fall down there eh?
No.

The game is programmed to slightly alter the placement of the rack of balls each time - this is done to remove the possiblility of a player practising golden breaks off youtube and getting repeated gb's.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,966
16:10 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
also i am allowed my opinion am i not? i still think something should be done to promote runouts etc which is what this tournament does.
Deleted User
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16:13 Sun 4 Mar 12 (GMT)  [Link]  
Haha... I've a funny feeling that Chris is going to be mad as hell that we're filling his thread up with all this chatter!
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