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FBL discussion (2)

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Deleted User
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16:31 Sun 18 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
That is not how the rule used to be, you could always reverse a swap at any time.

Its ok though another change to prevent games getting played, we should be used to it by now.
agreed swaps and sub's shall be unlimited to make the job easier for captains!
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
18:05 Sun 18 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Here's a suggestion guys:

Currently: Player A1 vs Player B1
and: Player A2 vs Player B2

Now do the following:
Player A1 vs Player B1
is now
Player A3 vs Player B1

then:

Player A2 vs Player B2
is now
Player A1 vs Player B2

then:

Player A3 vs Player B1
is now
Player A2 vs Player B1

3 subs, no swaps, same result.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 38,005
20:32 Sat 24 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Here's a suggestion guys:

Currently: Player A1 vs Player B1
and: Player A2 vs Player B2

Now do the following:
Player A1 vs Player B1
is now
Player A3 vs Player B1

then:

Player A2 vs Player B2
is now
Player A1 vs Player B2

then:

Player A3 vs Player B1
is now
Player A2 vs Player B1

3 subs, no swaps, same result.

Thats basically what i mean about using unlimited subs to change into one swap but i think it got ignored. You could use the above to basically have unlimited swaps therefore removing the one swap rule we have at the moment.

I believe we should go back to unlimited swaps. We use it in our league and the system is rarely if ever abused by a clan. If a runner believes it is being abused then they have the authority to cancel it unless the game was played.

I haven't seen clans use Seb's example but with one swap and unlimited substitutions i can see it happen in the future.
turtle1560
turtle1560
Posts: 3,250
20:47 Sat 24 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Yeah but if a player is subbed out of a game type, is he not tied to that one game type then and can only sub back into that type. Thats where i thought the swap allowed one swap between game types.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 38,005
20:57 Sat 24 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Yeah but if a player is subbed out of a game type, is he not tied to that one game type then and can only sub back into that type. Thats where i thought the swap allowed one swap between game types.

I don't get the Underlined personally if its true as thats where tactical subbing or fixture fixing is more likely to happen than switching from UK to Straight for example.

Swaps in same game mode should only happen if really needed and other captain agrees otherwise should be unlimited in my view
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
22:13 Sat 24 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
lol yeah, it's exactly opposite in the FBL from the way we have it.

But yes, that does threaten my subbing system slightly, lol.
turtle1560
turtle1560
Posts: 3,250
03:00 Sun 25 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Yeah but if a player is subbed out of a game type, is he not tied to that one game type then and can only sub back into that type. Thats where i thought the swap allowed one swap between game types.

I don't get the Underlined personally if its true as thats where tactical subbing or fixture fixing is more likely to happen than switching from UK to Straight for example.

Swaps in same game mode should only happen if really needed and other captain agrees otherwise should be unlimited in my view


What i meant was lets say a player is subbed out of 8us, then if he was to be subbed back into the match later then he could only be subbed into an 8us match without the swap being used.

I could be wrong but that's what i thought anyways.
Deleted User
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08:47 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
The system in place is the same as it was when I took the FBL - if you are subbed out of 8US then you can ONLY sub can into 8US - you are allowed 1 swap to accommodate getting a game played by switching between a game type. Since starting clans, it has only ever been 1 swap so not sure why people are saying it should go back to unlimited swaps?
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 38,005
17:21 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
I don't think its right then about the types. You will get more match fixing subbing into the same type in my view although if you get a dvz whos good at everything then that takes the types out of the equation.

even if you don't go back to unlimited swaps, captains can use the subs to make a swap as Seb posted so technically unless you cancel the 3 subs it is another swap and therefore a loophole in the rules.
Deleted User
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18:55 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Nobody ever had unlimited swaps in the first place is what she is saying and giving people more swaps than 1 in FBL setup would definitely lead to 'picking your opponents' scenario.
You haven't got 3 subs so that doesn't matter either
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
18:55 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
^Well no, it's not a loophole, because you cant sub into other game types after being subbed out. So my system doesnt work...

But once upon a time, the FBL had different sub rules, so that's why people are talking about it going back.

Im not sure what the point of the restriction is anyway- you can't stop match-fixing (meaning picking the matchups) with rules. All the other captain can do if he disagrees with a sub is to do the same sub to recreate the original matchup.
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,046
18:57 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
giving people more swaps than 1 in FBL setup would definitely lead to 'picking your opponents' scenario.
right. but you can easily do the same thing now. For example in our case, we could stick our 5 inactive players in the games. Then once we see the opponents, we simply sub in the players we want playing...
that's why I'm saying you can't stop matchup-fixing with rules.
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
19:01 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Only used to be allowed to sub back into the same game, the subbing back into the same game type is a later addition...think yaselves looky back in my day all we ad were shoe box in middle of tut road
cke1982
cke1982
Posts: 11,486
19:03 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
think its unfair u have to sub aguy out of a game then guys subs into 8us game both 8us games get played and u lose a sub as u can only use him in 8us and both games have been played subs should be able to be subbed out subbed back into any game type
horse10000
horse10000
Moderator
Posts: 9,902
19:14 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
cgibson is online now and I can play, so is it okay to swap the sub back?


Yes it is :)


It is up to Stu as you guys have used your swap so you can't reverse it, Uprising not used theres though so they could change it


Is this right? The rules used to be that if you done a swap you could swap it back at any time you did not need to use up another swap?

Sorry but if it is right, why are we adding rules to prevent games getting played.



This seems to have gone off the original point. The old rules were if you done a swap you could reverse it at any time it was not classed as a second swap. In the last fixture set we were advised that this was no longer the case and to do a swap back the other team had to use up their swap to get the game back to the original games from a start which is madness.

FBL rules regarding swaps need brought up to date anyway, subs and swaps should be encouraged to get games played the rules should not prevent games getting played which they currently do. As for match fixing and tactical subs, what is the problem with this as long as 8 players from one clan play 8 players from another clan with no defaults, everyone should be happy, far from being a negative it should be a part of any clan league, the fact that we allow one swap or one sub or unlimited subs any sub or swap is tactical even though clans can give another reason for doing it the moment that a sub or swap takes place it is a tactical change from the original fixture draw.
bluenose1872
bluenose1872
Posts: 22,512
20:07 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
You say that but you still aint replied to my very last post i see
Deleted User
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20:13 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Reversing a swap/sub is silly in my opinion, therefore should not be allowed. I agree with the no subbing/swapping rule for the first 5 days, maybe could be 3 but this 'only if agreed with another captain' malarky is ludicrous. Why can't everyone just wait 3 days?

If a players not around for the fixture (majority) then simply don't select them in the first place, captains should be aware of their own teams availability..surely?

Also this anyone can sub in on the deadline day is a silly rule in my opinion, instead of making any tactical subs/swaps might be easier to wait till deadline day just to play who they want making a mockery out of the whole 'message your opponent' system? Especially if it's a tight match and the last fixture determines the outcome of the fixture.

Edited at 20:22 Tue 27/08/13 (BST)
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 38,005
20:30 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Why can't everyone just wait 3 days?

^

you haven't met my internet, if you was in my shoes, you would want to play ASAP and if its to sub in then why not?

also if both captains agree then the runner shouldn't interfere since its between the captains.
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
20:44 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Why can't everyone just wait 3 days?

^

you haven't met my internet, if you was in my shoes, you would want to play ASAP and if its to sub in then why not?

also if both captains agree then the runner shouldn't interfere since its between the captains.


Okay fair enough, in exceptional circumstances okay, yours is, it's a consistent and continual thing unfortunately for yourself. But the majority of players don't have this issue mate, so I were speaking in relation to the majority.

Agree with the other statements but the whole Captain agreeing seems a little farcical.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 38,005
20:49 Tue 27 Aug 13 (BST)  [Link]  
but if both captains has no problem with the arrangement then thats between them. It has nothing to do with other captains.

if they don't like it they can say no then sub wouldn't stand.

due to this rule a possible game what may have been played got prevented, thats not good for a league in my opinion.
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FBL discussion (2)

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