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beenjammin
beenjammin
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13:34 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  


Their decision will be based solely on who the 2 players are, do they stand a cat in hell's chance and anyone put up vs Pros, Uprising even UB's wont be give any hope.

It's Wrong.


Personally, I will be checking how that player has played recently, as form is a good guide. I am not as naive as you think with regards to this.

Yes, every player is capable of a shock, like yourself against pete, but 9/10 times, you would most likely lose that game.

I think basing a default purely on effort involved really kills the default to begin with and skews the scoring more if my system were implemented.

I do not see the harm in trying something different, I am trying to make the scoreline as close to the real thing as possible. Which surely is a good thing??


That's not correct, it should never be about abilities when it comes to.defaults it's about the amount of effort.put into a game. If Pete has only.tried for one day get dvz has tried.for 14 days do. You give it a draw as they are pretty equal?

No, pete would get 0 or close to it, for lack of effort.
Dave should get what he probably would've got anyway.
A lot of you who are against this prdicted score thing seem to be looking over the fact that effort will still be the main factor, probable score would just be a starting point.
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13:38 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
Thanks Been, at least someone has got to grips with the idea haha!
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13:38 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
The starting point's where it's wrong though beenjammin, IF that's completely one sided then it's very unfair on the other player. All well and good deducting according to effort and application but if the starting points wrong and unfair then the rest need not even bother to take place.

You don't make any effort you deserve zilch
You make effort let that be only what's determined and judged upon as it is already.

Recently we didn't get as many points in a killer default due to not showing effort for the entire of the fixture, I hold my hands up and yes that were true. We still deserved some points which we got however, we didn't deserve to lose or draw the entire fixture so gladly common sense prevailed.

If this default panel judges a killer match say for example between: scott7a & beenjammin vs chapster_7 and krazyash_07. Me and you tried the entire fixture get it played and they tried 1 week of the 2 only - judging on their ability and the 100% likelihood we would lose unanimously why should they be rewarded for not as much effort as me and you.

IF someone's proving be a difficult customer then it's down to their team reps to act or face the same default consequences as the other. IF still no action then whole point of a League Runners to ensure Runs smoothly and efficiently.

Edited at 13:49 Fri 02/05/14 (BST)
beenjammin
beenjammin
Posts: 2,463
13:41 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
The problem with not using a probable score for starts is:
imagine 2 teams almost tied, one unplayed indiv match left,
it's pete vs "player z" (very poor player), its pete's team that's behind by one point.
it goes unplayed, effort was equal.
If it had been played, there's no doubt pete's team would've won the league.
If you do defaults without considering ability, pete's team will lose.
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13:42 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
The starting point's where it's wrong though beenjammin, IF that's completely one sided then it's very unfair on the other player. All well and good deducting according to effort and application but if the starting points wrong and unfair then the rest need not even bother to take place.


Which bit is wrong and unfair?

If player A was predicited to beat player B 12-3, but player B made little/no effort, he has his points deducted.
Which would result in player A winning 12-0, so therefore he does not lose out the amount of points that he was predicted to achieve, yet the team making no effort is punished for it.
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13:47 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
If it comes in that defaults are based on what might or might not of been the result in the first place I will probably leave clans on pool, I think it's a ludicrous decision.to allow a team of people to decide who is better, at least with effort it is in black and white what effort has been made.
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13:50 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
The problem with not using a probable score for starts is:
imagine 2 teams almost tied, one unplayed indiv match left,
it's pete vs "player z" (very poor player), its pete's team that's behind by one point.
it goes unplayed, effort was equal.
If it had been played, there's no doubt pete's team would've won the league.
If you do defaults without considering ability, pete's team will lose.


And rightfully so, it's upto captains and vices to ensure this doesn't happen.
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13:50 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
If it comes in that defaults are based on what might or might not of been the result in the first place I will probably leave clans on pool, I think it's a ludicrous decision.to allow a team of people to decide who is better, at least with effort it is in black and white what effort has been made.


Lets not forget, we are also to try and stop defaults in the team.

I know every team has their issue, but maybe working together as a team we can help each other out and try and stop defaults happening.
The panel is there for when a default unfortunately does happen, and that justice is served
beenjammin
beenjammin
Posts: 2,463
13:50 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
yes ash, upsets are always possible, and starting with a probable score rules out that possibility, but upsets are just that, unlikely. If the game couldn't actually be played, its the next best thing.
What's a bigger injustice?, losing the chance of an upset result?, or what happens to pete's team in my scenario?
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13:53 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
If it comes in that defaults are based on what might or might not of been the result in the first place I will probably leave clans on pool, I think it's a ludicrous decision.to allow a team of people to decide who is better, at least with effort it is in black and white what effort has been made.


Lets not forget, we are also to try and stop defaults in the team.

I know every team has their issue, but maybe working together as a team we can help each other out and try and stop defaults happening.
The panel is there for when a default unfortunately does happen, and that justice is served


Ok for example, me vs hardy probably a 14-1 or 15-0 result. We both equal effort, so you give a 14-1. It's unfair you are taking away the luck factor or the bad shot choice factor from myself he could quite easily win (some call it a fluke but it's still a win) 5-0 in fluke/9ball so the result could be 10-5 9-6
beenjammin
beenjammin
Posts: 2,463
13:53 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
The problem with not using a probable score for starts is:
imagine 2 teams almost tied, one unplayed indiv match left,
it's pete vs "player z" (very poor player), its pete's team that's behind by one point.
it goes unplayed, effort was equal.
If it had been played, there's no doubt pete's team would've won the league.
If you do defaults without considering ability, pete's team will lose.


And rightfully so, it's upto captains and vices to ensure this doesn't happen.

I don't think it would be fair at all, what if there was nothing the captains could do?
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13:54 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
yes ash, upsets are always possible, and starting with a probable score rules out that possibility, but upsets are just that, unlikely. If the game couldn't actually be played, its the next best thing.
What's a bigger injustice?, losing the chance of an upset result?, or what happens to pete's team in my scenario?


Upsets happen a lot, starting with a probable score rules out an upset how is that good ?
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13:55 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
The problem with not using a probable score for starts is:
imagine 2 teams almost tied, one unplayed indiv match left,
it's pete vs "player z" (very poor player), its pete's team that's behind by one point.
it goes unplayed, effort was equal.
If it had been played, there's no doubt pete's team would've won the league.
If you do defaults without considering ability, pete's team will lose.


And rightfully so, it's upto captains and vices to ensure this doesn't happen.

I don't think it would be fair at all, what if there was nothing the captains could do?


There always is though been, at uprising stupid/Faust can always sub in. At pros it's usually been me/Scott/Keith one visit so I think there is always something that can be done
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13:56 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
If it comes in that defaults are based on what might or might not of been the result in the first place I will probably leave clans on pool, I think it's a ludicrous decision.to allow a team of people to decide who is better, at least with effort it is in black and white what effort has been made.


Lets not forget, we are also to try and stop defaults in the team.

I know every team has their issue, but maybe working together as a team we can help each other out and try and stop defaults happening.
The panel is there for when a default unfortunately does happen, and that justice is served


Ok for example, me vs hardy probably a 14-1 or 15-0 result. We both equal effort, so you give a 14-1. It's unfair you are taking away the luck factor or the bad shot choice factor from myself he could quite easily win (some call it a fluke but it's still a win) 5-0 in fluke/9ball so the result could be 10-5 9-6


As you have just said yourself, 'the luck factor', but that is if the game was to actually get played, it hasn't so the next best thing is to attempt to find a common ground for the score.

Hence why 7 people will predict what they think the score will be, and the average be taken, so if someone thinks hardy will thrash you 15-0 but the rest dont, his 'luck' comes from that which would skew the results by 2 frames.
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13:58 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
Luck is part of funkypool take that away then . What hope do the lesser players have, they are hoping for a bit of LUCK to get frames of the better players.
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13:58 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
There is also poor shot choice, there is also lag.
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13:59 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
Luck is part of funkypool take that away then . What hope do the lesser players have, they are hoping for a bit of LUCK to get frames of the better players.


Getting the game played, that usually helps with the luck side of things.
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14:01 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
Luck is part of funkypool take that away then . What hope do the lesser players have, they are hoping for a bit of LUCK to get frames of the better players.


Getting the game played, that usually helps with the luck side of things.


But as your all saying sometimes that's impossible, but taking away all those factors takes away part of the game. The starting point should be 0-0 then points awarded for effort and so on.
beenjammin
beenjammin
Posts: 2,463
14:05 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
yes ash, upsets are always possible, and starting with a probable score rules out that possibility, but upsets are just that, unlikely. If the game couldn't actually be played, its the next best thing.
What's a bigger injustice?, losing the chance of an upset result?, or what happens to pete's team in my scenario?


Upsets happen a lot, starting with a probable score rules out an upset how is that good ?

upsets happen, wouldn't goe so far as to say a lot. and I didnt say ruling out the possibility of one is a good thing, said it's the next best thing, if the game couldn't be played.
Not nearly as tragic as pete's team losing in my scenario
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14:05 Fri 2 May 14 (BST)  [Link]  
Let's face it: chapster_7 you are 100% determined to trial this then hopefully in your opinion implement it. We will NEVER totally abolish defaults, it's all part of the game.

Real life, real situations arise and there's nothing anyone can do to control them, what Captains and Vices can do is try to act as quickly and efficiently as we possibly can to prohibit any defaults from happening. (Communication)

I totally disagree with this whole 'predicting the possible outcome' regardless of luck, ability, skill, amount of time been on this site factors. Should and ONLY be based upon Effort and Application.

A defaults occurred due to a match not being either arranged concisely or one or both players not being as co-operative as they should have been. The same applies to the Captain and Vices who have failed to act appropriately so should all suffer the default consequences.

It's all well and good thinking up hypothetical scenarios but the same default process should apply at the start of a season till it's end, if that penalises a team from a title, league position then tough.

Sorry, harsh but fair for all.

Edited at 14:10 Fri 02/05/14 (BST)
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