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FCL - General Discussion

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_knightmare_
_knightmare_
Posts: 14,645
21:21 Sat 7 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
I don't think you can punish a clan from folding you can apprehend the Captain and introduce a 2 strike limit as a punishment. This could act as a deterrent to steer players away from signing for them in future or have the exact opposite effect.

I think Captains have to held accountable for their actions and it not only wastes their own players hard time and effort but Everyone's. I folded due to health related issues, in hindsight i know I should have made more effort to sustain the team and pass the running over to another representative. I know that now, but if you punish as severely as James has mentioned then you'll only stop new clans from forming in the future.

IF you fold 2 times then that's your 'Captaincy Role' over until you 'turn over a new leaf' so to speak or can be trusted.

That's what i think.

_____________________________________________
Possible new introductions could be: team lists being made transparent immediately from their submission. Only those players (4 max) with the word Captain alongside their name can authorize subs and swaps - this is to prevent any possible 'treading on toes' or chaos from erupting. Everyone follows the same rules and not modifies them when it suits. Have a small team of runners, too many chiefs and not enough indians is a recipe for disaster.



IF we all follow the same rules then there's no inequality.
Result = hopefully no issues.
jimmy_efc
jimmy_efc
Posts: 914
21:23 Sat 7 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
Numbers were reduced on snooker. No new clans but more defaults from it, so i say in no way numbers should be reduced. All teams will remove their less active players so no new clans will be formed.


Fair point mate.
jimmy_efc
jimmy_efc
Posts: 914
21:32 Sat 7 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
Let's call a spade a spade shall we.
Revolutions, Black Scorpions, and maybe Chips n Gravy will all struggle to fill 16 players next season, causing definitely one, maybe two, or possibly all three clans to fold. This is hypothetically as I'll do everything in my power to keep C n G afloat next season.
Now, the question is, would the league be better off with an additional 3 clans, even if that meant reducing the draft on all the others?

It seems the current free agent list is made up of newbies that don't know what clans are, or geriatrics that refuse to play in them lol.
zantetsukenz
zantetsukenz
Moderator
Posts: 19,961
21:47 Sat 7 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
2 strikes and the damage you want to prevent is already done, and the punishment doesn't really fit because chances are you won't join a captain who has folded two clans within a punishable timeframe anyway. Perhaps limiting a captain who folds to a season of being a VC (because they're gonna have a say in things anyway).

To punish a captain with a ban means you need a minimum requirement for captaincy (e.g. 1 season), which is a whole new can of worms. On the whole I think a runners judgement tends to work out best for if a clan will last. In Ash's case it was obvious there wouldn't be a problem this season, even with the folding of Phoenix seeming premature.

The problem isn't filling a clan list. It's easy enough to do, but getting the reliable players is what is important. Clans with 9-10 active players have completed a season before where a full clan has struggled. The new clans don't need 16, they should focus on reliability first and try to coax in some funky regulars.
punkpoet
punkpoet
Posts: 19,816
22:00 Sat 7 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
How about a two season punishment for those who folded mid season in the past? If they fold mid season they could be issued with a two season ban from captaincy.

Subject to runners of course


I like that idea tbf though in theory that player could just control the clan behind the scenes.

Though I think before we decide this that and the other we need to get the season done, and we need to figure out who's running the leagues, then we can debate sub, player numbers and other issues.
jimmy_efc
jimmy_efc
Posts: 914
22:02 Sat 7 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
Problem is, most of the regulars are already in clans, and the ones that aren't are the ones that refuse to play in them.
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
22:54 Sat 7 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
I agree with Jimmy
jimmy_efc
jimmy_efc
Posts: 914
23:02 Sat 7 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
Haha thanks
the__priest
the__priest
Posts: 7,853
00:14 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
Surely Chris has taught everyone in clans something
hasn't he
it needs less regulation James
thought you would have learned that by now

a lot of captains have folded clans because of blatant cheating by runners, on bending rules and making up default results that suits
you have serial captains that make clans and don't see them through
we've had a captain this season who did nothing all season , then was going to fold it

we don't need dictatorships James
its proven it doesn't work
already your talking about banning people
get over yourself

leave it alone
horse10000
horse10000
Moderator
Posts: 9,902
01:13 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
We need to think what's more important for next season, having a league full of clans or having a clan full of players?

At the moment its 16 players per clan which is brilliant, as it reduces the risk of defaults, but surely, if clans were reduced to 12 players, and fixtures were 6x6 rather than 8x8, there would be the same sort of reliability, but with more clans to compete against?

This has probably been proposed and covered again, but I'm just bouncing ideas off people.

What about something similar to the NFL Draft too? The bottom teams gets the pick of the best players, or would that be too complex lol?


I have to agree that dropping the number of games to try and increase the number of clans has to happen. I do think that it will be the usual suspects that stop this happening though.

If we stick with 8 games and 16 players the maximum clans we can have is 8, you can split players all you want you cannot create more clans than active players. So for 8 fixtures per game the maximum number of clans is 8 on here.

If we drop it to 6 fixtures you should be able to have 10 or 11 active clans all with enough active players to complete games. I know my preference would be more clans but I doubt everyone will agree.

There is no need to demand to drop numbers either, if clans have 16 players and they all want to stay with 6 games per fixture that is their choice but I would expect after the first season most would move and you would end up with between 10 and 12 per clan if games were dropped to 6.
ab_rfc
ab_rfc
Moderator
Posts: 7,930
02:47 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
How about clans of 12 and have 12 v 12, no subs or swaps and only count the 6 best scores for each clan, surely this would be fun and put an end to defaults and sub arguments.

Would be different, Just a thought
_knightmare_
_knightmare_
Posts: 14,645
03:54 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
LOL You're jokin right?

After all the bloody crap were given when i initially set up Xiith Man (13) you got no chance. 12 would be ideal well would have been but just because some of the so called 'top sides' cant actually manage to keep their players interested now a change is possible/suggested LOL

Nah not for me - 16 is fine - we have 13 atm soon to be 16.



Edited at 04:11 Sun 08/03/15 (GMT)
ab_rfc
ab_rfc
Moderator
Posts: 7,930
05:48 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
lol
_huts24_
_huts24_
Posts: 7,273
08:25 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
I feel u don't need 16 players , 14 is well enough :)

By having 14 players it will help more clans get made and be more fun . U play 8 players in a fixture so 6 players as subs is enough :)

I do feel if u reduce the numbers in a team the fixtures will need to be reduced also .
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,964
09:15 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
Surely Chris has taught everyone in clans something
hasn't he
it needs less regulation James
thought you would have learned that by now

a lot of captains have folded clans because of blatant cheating by runners, on bending rules and making up default results that suits
you have serial captains that make clans and don't see them through
we've had a captain this season who did nothing all season , then was going to fold it

we don't need dictatorships James
its proven it doesn't work
already your talking about banning people
get over yourself

leave it alone


lol craig, some clans fold as they haven't got the players to continue, yes thats the players fault but if they fold over runners thats their problem in my view as they could have continued.

"you have serial captains that make clans and don't see them through"

Thats reason i suggested the ban in the first place so things like this may not happen.

If players leave so much that you have no choice to fold, that is out of your control but to fold because of runners or because captains are lazy is well within your control.

If its a first time offence then you get put on a list, second strike either warning/ban.

By the way Craig, it is only a ban from running clans not playing so technically they haven't been banned altogether, they can still play but not run a clan for two seasons.

In your own words "get over yourself", the real Craig is back it seems
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
10:13 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
I'm all for 12 in a clan but you do have to have a bit of leeway for folk being sick, going on holiday etc so the 8 games per fixture is in my mind ideal.

As for folding a clan mid season, if you do you shouldn't be allowed to captain in the league again. Simple as that. If we followed that rule we would have a happier clan league currently, just saying.
the__priest
the__priest
Posts: 7,853
13:11 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
no James its called banning people
there is many captains season in season out are uncooperative ban them as well

there are people without playing a season in the leagues captaining or being vices

new teams this coming season
there are people who shouldn't be let lose anywhere near clans going to be captain's and vices

looking at it you don't need a season experience on that account
the comment we know who it is, makes it ok now

Edited at 13:18 Sun 08/03/15 (GMT)
the__priest
the__priest
Posts: 7,853
13:21 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
I truly think reducing 8 games to six in FCL
and reducing team sizes to 12 is a great idea after all
it used to be 12 players

FBL
8 games
and 2 of the same player can play in straight
used to be that way before

SL
is ok anyway
and works very well


where is the problem apart from the reluctance to change

and it does need to change for many many reasons
faust
faust
Posts: 9,967
13:32 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
Most of the people calling for a reduction in numbers are people that are struggling to fill their clan. It seems like vested interests rather than what's good for the league. I find it easy to recruit up to 16, so obviously I'm against any reduction. The same people that can't recruit 16 would still struggle to recruit 12 if we added more clans to the competition.

Pro's benefited this season from not having an active 16 and giving their best players more games, they maybe had 12 active players and yet 8 v 8 wasn't a problem for them. The FCL has been the best competition since I joined the leagues and it would be a crying shame to see it changed.
buckjam
buckjam
Posts: 4,043
13:38 Sun 8 Mar 15 (GMT)  [Link]  
Why so much discussion about Captains? Of all the clans in the last season FPD probably were the most hassle but still had only 4-5 defaults in the whole season. We were in it for the fun and didnt alter the outcome of any of the leagues or cups from what i can see.

Of course the teams who have 16 want to keep it like that. The strong stay strong and the smaller teams struggle. There has to be smaller, weaker teams or there is no where for the new players to come to start. We take the less experienced,not so-good players because the other bigger teams will not. This can also lead to reliability issues. Getting hammered consistentlyby bigger team players 15-0 in fcl or 5-0 in fbl does little for confidence and some feel they are out of their depth and letting the team down.They then leave.

Why cant we start the season with 2 leagues? Top 4 and bottom 4-5. Bottom 4-5 just need 12 players and top 4 need 16. Makes it easier for the smaller teams to get games done and less defaults
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