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Deleted User
(IP Logged)
16:02 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
Is this really allowed? Just looking at those (removed) results make it obvious.

I thought all achievements would be gained in play. This person is playing friendlies and potting the black etc to finish the game if the runout or 7 baller is a no go.

What point are the achievement leader boards if they are being forcibly manipulated? Those results are clearly cheating.

Anyone have an opinion?

Just to clarify, same person posts in chat asking others to do the same with him, which doesn't make this thread naming and shaming. I don't particularly want to be banned from posting for highlighting what's a site issue

Thanks.

Edited at 17:36 Mon 06/04/15 (BST)
_niall_
_niall_
Posts: 7,324
16:09 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
I got banned for doing the exact same thing in friendlies to help someone get posting rights many years ago, but apparently it's okay to do it these days. So I'm told anyway...
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
16:16 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
Madness.

So I can try my best to get an elusive runout or 7 baller fairly, in a competitive game, but these guys can pair up and play deliberate fouls to get higher on the leaderboards.

Anyone else 'get it' ? Niall, thanks for the reply. I think the difference here is that it's not just potting the black to up somebody to posting rights. It's deliberate fouling to gain an advantage over others

I honestly have no incentive to play if this is allowed.

Edited at 17:24 Mon 06/04/15 (BST)
zantetsukenz
zantetsukenz
Moderator
Posts: 19,960
16:25 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
It's not cheating when all 7 ballings or runouts are being made legitimately. All they are doing is potting the black right away. No rank changing, no stats gained unfairly. All it means is they have quicker games. Playing deliberate fouls doesn't get them higher on the leader boards.

They still need to hit the run-outs themselves, the only ones they are harming is themselves by dropping their win %.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,938
16:26 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
It should never be okay but a very valid point to point out, these are friendlies so it is just a free win like when guests leave or ranked players leave friendly games.

They was trying for Runouts i believe so didn't want to waste time closing the frame out which is wrong but it is like Power Snooker where you wait the maximum time available on shots to slow down time (this is the opposite i.e. speeding up frames but same principle in a sense).

If it was ranked then the person doing it should be reset at least as its very serious (maybe why you got banned _niall_?) but in friendlies it is less serious as it is worth one win and nothing more.

I agree it can be classed as cheating as people call it as if no Runout or Seven Ball is on, they pot the black to end the frame therefore trying for more Runouts in less time instead of in their eyes wasting two to three minutes per frame for something as meaningless as a Frame Win.

I always close frames out if i can but players think differently.

Nice shout on the thread as well but you can also message Admin in private and deal with it behind closed doors
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
16:30 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
Ok..

Would it be fair if in play that wasn't competitive say Ronnie osullivan and a 'friend' re-racked the balls each time the 147 wasn't on and when they did hit one it could go on the world leaderboards?

It's clearly manipulating results for gain.

What would Ronnie osullivan's 147's count for if achieved in that way. I can't see that scenario being respected from fellow players or uphelp by any organisation.

Edited at 16:34 Mon 06/04/15 (BST)
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,938
16:36 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
Ok..

Would it be fair if in play that wasn't competitive say Ronnie osullivan and a 'friend' reached the balls each time the 147 wasn't on and when they did hit one it could go on the world leaderboards?

It's clearly manipulating results for gain.


you mean re-racked? sure they could but maybe they would get a fine or something? This is a site for fun though, something to pass the time.

I know guys have had bans in the real game (Stephen Lee is a major example), but money was at stake and ranking points.

In this scenario, nothing but a frame win was on the line, events are a bonus if you get them just like Maximums. no rank, no money
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,938
16:38 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
What would Ronnie osullivan's 147's count for if achieved in that way. I can't see that scenario being respected from fellow players or uphelp by any organisation.


Maybe not, i would say it isn't worth as much however it isn't like Player B set Player A up, you still have to pot them.
zantetsukenz
zantetsukenz
Moderator
Posts: 19,960
16:39 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
Yes, each frame is individual. The 147 is a legitimate 147 and each should go on the leader boards. The previous frame should have no bearing on whether or not an achievement should be added.

All that really matters is the events within that frame. If they were deliberately setting the other up for a 7 balling instead of fouling the black then I would completely agree because that is manipulating the leader boards. If they were both playing 90 seconds per shot to slow each other down would you feel the same? It's the same principle but in reverse.

For all we know they could be having a runout match (e.g. race to 5 runouts), in which case to play out each match would potentially lengthen the match exponentially.
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
16:48 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
So if it's only ranked games that can fall foul of site rules can I pair up with somebody if just friendly games and pot the black over and over to up my win percentage?

Thanks for replies.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,938
16:52 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
So if it's only ranked games that can fall foul of site rules can I pair up with somebody if just friendly games and pot the black over and over to up my win percentage?

Thanks for replies.


Difference is they aren't upping Win %, Since both players was doing it, it either stays roughly where it is or ups/drops a touch.

If one player just does it to up win % then its different
legend_pot
legend_pot
Posts: 1,110
16:54 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
It's not cheating when all 7 ballings or runouts are being made legitimately. All they are doing is potting the black right away. No rank changing, no stats gained unfairly. All it means is they have quicker games. Playing deliberate fouls doesn't get them higher on the leader boards.

They still need to hit the run-outs themselves, the only ones they are harming is themselves by dropping their win %.
totally agree with this
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
17:00 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
So if it's only ranked games that can fall foul of site rules can I pair up with somebody if just friendly games and pot the black over and over to up my win percentage?

Thanks for replies.


Difference is they aren't upping Win %, Since both players was doing it, it either stays roughly where it is or ups/drops a touch.

If one player just does it to up win % then its different


So are you saying it's only okay to foul on blacks, deliberately, if you're getting runouts and 7 ballings.

Why would upping win percentage by deliberately potting blacks be any different than doing it for runouts and 7 ballings? You can't allow one and not the other because all stats should be treated with the same respect/

From the help page:

If your opponent is deliberately losing against you, you must leave. If you do not leave you may have your scores reset. Gaining rank in this manner is not fair on members who are competitively winning their rank.

Why should gaining rank be any different that gaining achievements if both rise you up on leader boards?
zantetsukenz
zantetsukenz
Moderator
Posts: 19,960
17:02 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
So if it's only ranked games that can fall foul of site rules can I pair up with somebody if just friendly games and pot the black over and over to up my win percentage?

Thanks for replies.


Those wins would not be legitimate though, the runouts are. Therein lies the crucial difference.

It's definitely a grey area, I completely understand where you are coming from.
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
17:03 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
It's definitely a grey area, I completely understand where you are coming from.


Yes i see your point too Zan.

That's for the input.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,938
17:09 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
If your opponent is deliberately losing against you, you must leave. If you do not leave you may have your scores reset. Gaining rank in this manner is not fair on members who are competitively winning their rank.

See point in Bold, it is NOT a Ranked game so it should read...

If your opponent is deliberately losing against you, you must leave. If you do not leave you may have your scores reset. Gaining wins in this manner is not fair on members who competitively earn them.

^ then you would be completely correct

Why would upping win percentage by deliberately potting blacks be any different than doing it for runouts and 7 ballings? You can't allow one and not the other because all stats should be treated with the same respect/

If your aiming for Frames then i completely agree it is cheating (particularly in the Clan League) however they was aiming for Runouts so frames didn't matter to them.

Their is a Leaderboard for Frame Wins not Win Percentage so Win % doesn't have any realistic meaning
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
17:26 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
I honestly see your point, but to me gaining stats by manipulating them is self defeatist. I will respect the man or lady that wins them against a random opponent during competitive play, be it friendly or ranked, not the man or lady that pairs with somebody they know simply to look good? A runout of 7 balling is break dependent, so re-racking to gain that stat is cheating.

If your break doesn't open the pack as you like I don't agree with re-racking.

Guess agree to disagree.

Removed result link and name.

Edited at 17:31 Mon 06/04/15 (BST)
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
Posts: 37,938
17:39 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
I see your point also but common sense sometimes comes into play.

If you feel that strong then speak to Admin who then would decide what to do
Deleted User
(IP Logged)
17:55 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
I think admin have enough on their plate mate.

I do feel very strongly. Any site that let's players manipulate themselves with another player to overtake those playing fairly in leaderboards is kicking themselves in the nuts. It's a consesion for what? Spamming gameplay to show you're good when other players know it already..

I honestly thought the constant names popping up with runouts were made during tournaments etc.

Add to this another issue facing the site that's best not discussed and Funkypool loses it's appeal to me. Voting with my feet.
_niall_
_niall_
Posts: 7,324
19:11 Mon 6 Apr 15 (BST)  [Link]  
It should never be okay but a very valid point to point out, these are friendlies so it is just a free win like when guests leave or ranked players leave friendly games.

They was trying for Runouts i believe so didn't want to waste time closing the frame out which is wrong but it is like Power Snooker where you wait the maximum time available on shots to slow down time (this is the opposite i.e. speeding up frames but same principle in a sense).

If it was ranked then the person doing it should be reset at least as its very serious (maybe why you got banned _niall_?) but in friendlies it is less serious as it is worth one win and nothing more.

I agree it can be classed as cheating as people call it as if no Runout or Seven Ball is on, they pot the black to end the frame therefore trying for more Runouts in less time instead of in their eyes wasting two to three minutes per frame for something as meaningless as a Frame Win.

I always close frames out if i can but players think differently.

Nice shout on the thread as well but you can also message Admin in private and deal with it behind closed doors


If you read my post you'd see I said friendlies. I had pretty good stats on that account too And I was banned without warning. The other person was only reset. Seems the rules have changed since which I've no problem with.
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