In the case of Vipers, and I don't mean to offend anyone in Vipers by this, there is just no point for them to join division 1. If they wanted to, they would of course move up.
But their players would, with a few exceptions maybe, get spanked by everyone. They would not have fun and several of them would leave out of frustration very soon. Look at what happens with some players in div 1 that lose heavily. They deactivate or quit.
Nobody would benefit from this- Vipers or the other teams.

Nobody wants to see Shooters relegated more than me (), but in this case kenny is right to request to remain in div 2.

im sure that could be arranged

Surely the point in any sport is to get to the top of your league/rankings etc. what's the point in playing if you have no desire to become better. They finished 2nd if it is 2 up and 2 down they should go up simples, otherwise there is no point in them playing. Even if they have players off a lesser abilty to some others in div 1they should give it their best shot and if they get relegated that's the way it goes.

Edited at 20:28 Sat 12/05/12 (BST)

some people don't play for rankings though, i know D&C/FSE do on Snooker and MVP do on pool but some clans just play for fun and its not nice for them to keep getting beat by the clans who want to be top dog. i know i got bored getting beat 16-0 constantly by destiny as hes only person who could make me feel lifeless on the table even though i learned along the way so i can imagine what Vipers are going through (no offense guys).

Vipers are a friendly clan and i think thats all they want to be, if clans who earned right to choose if to go in 1st or 2nd division.

If this is case Jay then i would change rules to make it clearer.

To be honest i dont care 1 way or the other but what happens if they meet a player of a "greater ability" in a tournament?? do they not show up for fear of losing?? also take for example the fact that UT are joining division 2 and they would surely be contenders for the division 1 title?

Well at the end of the day the runners need to decide if this is a competetive league or not because they might want to play for fun, but they are affecting other clans chances who might be playing to achieve promotion.

difference is UT hasn't earned the right yet (once they get in top 2 then they have right to choose), also don't forget if Crazy Eights was still here then Vipers would have remained in Div 2 anyway.

i can see why kenny wanted to stay in division 2, as Seb said some big names have deactivated because they lost 14-1/15-0 if thats case what chance does Vipers have? if it happens and they fold whos fault is it?

Have to agree with tinie rather pointless being a clan if all they want to do is stay in the bottom division.

Well surely before a player joins a clan they should know the possibilty of getting beat heavily is always there so i would say if they folded it's their own player's fault.

there is a way round it, fold then revive it

ahem

They need to start in division 2 like all other clans have had to, then they will need to last longer than 5 minutes to have any chance of being contenders for division 1

ok fine. I'll agree to a tie.

I know they must start in division 2 all i was trying to say is when new clans form they start in division 2 i could have used MVP or Snooker Squad as examples to but wanted to keep it current for the purpose of the discussion

I agree with all that tinie and the others are saying, but still think the odds of Vipers folding rise massively if they're gonna move up to division 1. Remember, they finished last in div 2...

ok guys let be honest about most top teams on here
if a couple of good players sign for a team here most people jump on the band wagon and join them
not a lot of teams win the league with average players that not putting people down

iv only seen a couple of teams win the league with average players
one team is shooters and division one 2 and tpa when good team have be in

mvp let point out here every wants to join them as they like the man utd of the league lol

snooker squad thought they come over and win it but not just yet

james we have 3/4 players give anyone a run for they money we knew we had no chance of winning the league but u still hope you have that whole point being in the league

is this a discussion thread about who goes up who goes down

none of you make the decisions, if you like it tough if you dont tough,lets get one thing right here.

league ruunners make these decisions not.you lot

all you need is a witches coldron nd away you go

rick as for your comment re shooters winning div 1
let me say you never have.... shooters have end of
.. deal with it ...

and dont you just love cool_dudes division 3 remarks. hmmm maybe your record on completing a season might be improved in tht league....

can the league runner please inform the teams who are in division 1 next season please, or are we staill waiting for seb and ipotalot to finish all their debates.

after that can we maybe get the thread back on topic

I thought the title of the thread was league discussion thread? Not craig's opinion is only worthy here . I think we all understand that the runners make the decisions we are just expressing our opinion's if that is ok with you sire.

Craig just make sure when you get banned again that Sarah gets all your post details passed over so we can still get your crap on here.

Think you just like debating for the sake of it, before you were posting how shooters should be in division 2....

wouldnt make a difference coolio id see the season through hmm if you no what i mean

anyway back to topic