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zantetsukenz
zantetsukenz
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23:39 Sun 2 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
We are willing, but you don't seem to be offering the same attitude you want us to about our side.

That isn't proof, it's opinion.

I provided proof that counting every game is more accurate, I have'nt seen any supporting any different.

You provided your opinion, not proof.

You didn't read my post then
zantetsukenz
zantetsukenz
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23:41 Sun 2 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
A football match is two 45 minute stints played back-to-back with a 15 break separating them. They aren't considered independent from each other, they come together to form a match. You don't have to twist your view to know that but you still hold it as one construct.


you're talking about halves of one game correct?
Ths isn't football, a game is a frame, a team match isn't, you 3 keep ignoring that.


An FCL match is simply one match, split into 3 types - which are then split into 5 frames each.

If you had an open mind you would see that you refuse to and keep to a narrow minded approach
beenjammin
beenjammin
Posts: 2,463
23:49 Sun 2 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
A football match is two 45 minute stints played back-to-back with a 15 break separating them. They aren't considered independent from each other, they come together to form a match. You don't have to twist your view to know that but you still hold it as one construct.


you're talking about halves of one game correct?
I see what you're trying to say, but its not comparable.
This isn't football, a frame is a game (fact), a team match isn't, it's a bunch of games (fact), you 3 keep ignoring that fact.
That's why you can't see the proof, every fact I point out that you don't like, you choose to ignore.
You also keep ignoring the fact that seeing frames as games is more accurate than seeing matches as games (accuracy in numbers).(explained in more detail earlier)

Edited at 22:00 Sun 02/02/14 (GMT)
Deleted User
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23:55 Sun 2 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
An FCL match is simply one match, split into 3 types - which are then split into 5 frames each.


Even simpler than that, an FCL match should be one match split into 8 individual games.

The same way that a Ryder Cup is one match split into 28 individual games - not split into 504 holes.

A Davis Cup tennis match is one match split into 5 individual rubbers - not split into 25 individual sets or 250 odd individual games.

A Mosconi Cup match is one match split into 21 individual games not x number of individual racks/frames.

Any competition must be primarily about beating your opponent. It does not matter how and it does not matter by how many. That's where you were right earlier when you said how good or how rubbish anyone is playing is irrelevant. It is and all that matters therefore is getting the win. And everyone getting the win should, in the first instance, be rewarded identically.

Edited at 22:05 Sun 02/02/14 (GMT)
beenjammin
beenjammin
Posts: 2,463
00:02 Mon 3 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
An FCL match is simply one match, split into 3 types - which are then split into 5 frames each.


Even simpler than that, an FCL match should be one match split into 8 individual games.

The same way that a Ryder Cup is one match split into 28 individual games - not split into 504 holes.

A Davis Cup tennis match is one match split into 5 individual rubbers - not split into 25 individual sets or 250 odd individual games.

A Mosconi Cup match is one match split into 21 individual games not x number of individual racks/frames.

Any competition must be primarily about beating your opponent. It does not matter how and it does not matter by how many. That's where you were right earlier when you said how good or how rubbish anyone is playing is irrelevant. It is and all that matters therefore is getting the win. And everyone getting the reward should, in the first instance, be rewarded identically.

I agree its about beating your opponent, but it does matter how many times you can beat them. A match isn't a game, a frame is, and every one should be counted.

I really am done trying now, now all 3 of you come in again with the last word, if that makes you feel more correct.
zantetsukenz
zantetsukenz
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Posts: 19,967
00:18 Mon 3 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
Once more, that is just your opinion. A match is whatever you choose it to be. As long as the system is fair and not changed halfway through then there is no problem with it.

Isn't that what you are trying to do though? You are the one who keeps saying he has proven his point by putting forward an opinion. This is not about being correct, there is no right or wrong answer. It's defending an idea which you brought here from a discussion thread
whocares8x8
whocares8x8
Posts: 11,054
00:38 Mon 3 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
It all boils down to whether you see a match as the basic value that should be counted or a frame. You have different opinions, so you wont come to a mutual agreement. Simple as that.

I have to say that I slightly agree with horse, zante, chris in that this is meant to be a team game, so therefore the team win should count most.
beenjammin
beenjammin
Posts: 2,463
02:01 Mon 3 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
I totally agree with that first part seb, as zante said, "a match is whatever you choose it to be", my argument is:
There is more accuracy in more numbers. You can view a match (indiv or team) as a game, and just count that, but it doesn't reflect what actually happened on the table with as much detail (accuracy) as counting every frame (game).

Here's an example in scoring indiv match wins:
If I played you in FCL, and you beat me 14-1, that's a bigger accomplishment than if you beat me 8-7. Counting every frame would record that difference. Counting indiv match wins would see both results the same, 1-0.
There's even less numbers being counted if you only count team match wins, so it's even more inaccurate.

All this is fact, indisputable. I only saw chris even attempt to address and dispute this point, and he changed the subject really, talked about if this guy was the one playing that guy or not. We're talking about scoring systems, it doesn't matter who's playing who, that's like saying one player deserves a chance at more points than another player does.

I can see your point, about a team game and team matches counting most. But when I keep looking, I realize it's still a team game whatever the scoring system, everyone's results are counted either way. The question is, how accurately?

Edited at 00:15 Mon 03/02/14 (GMT)

Edited at 00:58 Mon 03/02/14 (GMT)
Deleted User
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02:30 Mon 3 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
There is more accuracy in more numbers.


No, there is more accuracy in whatever is considered the primary reward that serves to achieve the correct outcome based on your own beliefs of what makes a worthy winner.

For us, it is the team ethic. The team that achieves the best overall results against the other teams across the season/competition deserves to win it. And I might add again, this is generally considered to be the normal view in team competition. For someone who seems to put so much faith in more accuracy from greater numbers, you seem oblivious to the irony of the fact that your views are clearly not held by the vast majority of individuals who are involved in devising, arranging, organising and playing in team competitions and tournaments in so many sports and games.

You can have your own beliefs over what makes a worthy winner in your own opinion but that is all it is. It is not based on fact and is certainly not indicative of a more accurate outcome for anyone that does not hold with your views.

Edited at 00:41 Mon 03/02/14 (GMT)
beenjammin
beenjammin
Posts: 2,463
02:58 Mon 3 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
I'm gonna respond to you one more time, since you continue to ignore the facts I've pointed out to you.

There is more accuracy in more numbers. Opinions aside, I pointed out facts (most recently in my response to seb), that demonstrate why.

The team ethic is there in any of the debated options.


"The team that achieves the best overall results against the other teams across the season/competition deserves to win it."
^ This is funny coming from you, creater of the SL. Your own league isn't decided by what happens throughout the season.
You set old results aside and have a knockout, deciding the whole season with one team fixture.

Edited at 01:01 Mon 03/02/14 (GMT)
Deleted User
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19:02 Mon 3 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
"The team that achieves the best overall results against the other teams across the season/competition deserves to win it."

The Super League is a completely different beast to the others however, even then, that above ethos still applies to Phase 1 of the Super League competition. The best overall team at that stage wins the League Leaders Shield.

The Play-Offs type competition exist for one, or two, of the following...

1) To allow for teams that don't all compete against each other in a Regular Season to come together in a competition to decide an overall winner as per the NFL, NHL, NBA etc, and indeed as was the case in Super League IV

and/or

2) To provide an enhanced and lengthened level of interest, competitiveness and entertainment for more participants that goes beyond that of a routine league format. I defy anyone involved in any of the previous Super League Play-Offs to say that was not the outcome that was achieved.

At least now that you have started on me I know that your argument must be exhausted. I was concerned before that we might have been missing a key killer issue beyond 'accuracy in numbers' to support your opinion which you had not yet managed to elucidate. Now I know that is not the case I am content that we are done.
Deleted User
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13:45 Fri 7 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
I know it's not the right thread but seeing as everyone else has....

I can see both sides of the argument here. Here's where the solution lies I think...Keep each individual score counted, whether, that's 8-7 or 15-0. Then when the fixture has ended, the team that wins gets 3 points and the team that loses get's zip (obviously). In the unlikely event of a draw, then both teams get a point each. More like a proper league table from football. That way, the individual frames still matter, pleasing been, and the team that actually wins the most fixtures will actually win the league, making it fairer.

Make sense?
Deleted User
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15:28 Fri 7 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
Or do away with 3,1,0 points and only award the points from the difference overall. So for example 8 games finish 9-6 all to the one team, points won are 8x3 = 24, other team gets nowt, didn't win a game. (unlikely example) will try another: 8 games; 8-7, (1), 5-10 (5), 6-9 (3), 12-3 (9), 7-8 (1), 11-4 (7), 8-7 (1), and 6-9 (3) OVERALL SCORE = 18-9. That way EVERY frame counts.

Just an idea, maybe in the future. If someone wins 15-0 then well done to them and THEIR team.
Deleted User
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15:37 Fri 7 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
That's not a bad idea to be fair Ash

Can't believe I just said that!
Deleted User
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16:10 Fri 7 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
That's not a bad idea to be fair Ash

Can't believe I just said that!


Wow shock shock horror horror, we agree!!! Lol
Deleted User
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17:39 Fri 7 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
That's not a bad idea to be fair Ash

Can't believe I just said that!


Wow shock shock horror horror, we agree!!! Lol


Lol.

Although I have thought of a problem with your idea....It still doesn't stop the problem of bigger teams playing to hammer the lesser teams; you're still going to have the chance that an unbeaten side won't win the title because the team that did, got an extra 20 frames or so against one of the lesser clans than the unbeaten side.
derik_dalton
derik_dalton
Posts: 3,846
21:40 Sun 9 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
Never tipped us to win it before so not a better biased post

1 uprising
2 pros
3 unbeatable
4. Firing squad
5. Phoenix

Think lethal lures signing has put us up to pros level
Deleted User
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23:08 Sun 9 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
1. Phoenix Storm
2. Uprising
3. Pros
4. Unbeatables
5. TFS.

Completely biased but we will be the most Unpredictable & Under Rated this Season.
derik_dalton
derik_dalton
Posts: 3,846
23:21 Sun 9 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
Got some good players asg but they come and go.

Hell of a task trying to get in top four now
derik_dalton
derik_dalton
Posts: 3,846
23:44 Sun 9 Feb 14 (GMT)  [Link]  
Fcl

Winner- ups
Runner up- pro
3rd place- ubs

Super league
Winner - ups
Runner up- pro
3rd place- ubs

Fbl
Winner- pro
Runner up - ups
3rd place ubs

Top Fcl player- pete
Top Tcl player- turtle
Top Fbl player- wellie

Two teams to fold- TFS. No other

Two players to be banned

Nuts and monkey
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