yeah i meant no subs but FCL has a legacy and i feel it would be wrong to change it.

hoping it works though so i can be proven wrong

No subs appears to be being parked as its unpopular, which leaves us with limited subs, or unlimited subs as it is now.

For some reason its the reasoning behind subs which is now causing the problem but that is something that cannot be covered by any rule other than a no sub rule - which has been parked!!

Nothing like going round in circles!!

sometimes i put it down to moronic idiocy ?

* How about 2/3 subs posted with team selections
* Posted on website for transparency
* No subs can be made on Deadline day prohibiting any team from being TOO tactical, also encourages Captains to actually do their job/duty and try arrange ALL matches. IF a match is not arranged then they can act within the 13/14 days surely.
* Subs are made as request ONLY - without a reasonable reason or valid one then these can be refused.
* Seems the subs ain't the only problem it's the calibre of the player subbed in.

Just an idea, please don't get personal jeez...it's an on line game fgs.

Ok its not a captains job/duty to arrange all matches i don't understand where you get this from .. a captains job is to do teamlists and notify players with either tagging or messages that they have a game... i don't understand where you have got this into your head that a captain should arrange all matches ...

The problem is not the calibre the problem is simple.... a captain sends his/her team in with full belief they can get a result against any of the opposition otherwise he/she wouldn't put them in said fixture .. its then when two days into a fixture a sub is made despite the original player being active .... it is clear to all what goes one.

.............coz ya don't need to m8!!

Tactical subbing in a way is ok for the lesser teams in my eyes, but the ultimate goal is that the games get played

my argument is gaz, IF you put 8 players into a game against say pros... you have done that as you have full faith.. then to sub two days into a fixture when player is active is silly.

To Matty, I totally agree with the first paragraph of your post before last.

As for the second, well it depends whether you stick with the list submitted and have no subs or you allow subs for whatever reason. There is no halfway house here that can possibly and reasonably exist in the rules.

To hippes I agree, but its also equally OK for good teams v good teams or lesser teams v lesser teams. In fact any team v any team!

The League was made simple years ago

captains submit a team of 8 players or 16 for two games

players arrange said games

IF games are struggling to get played then subs or swaps are done to allow for timezones etc

when oh when did we get to .... oo i only think he wil get 3 frames but this other player might get 6 frames ... silly.

I can guarantee that it has gone on from pretty much every clan at times since subs were allowed. Even if not admitted openly.

Of course there is less need to do it where you have sixteen players of equal ability but even then it will still have occurred.

I can guarentee at no point have i ever made a tactical sub as i said before every player in my clan can play any other player.

Therefore it makes no difference to you at all.

I'm not being difficult, I am just trying to understand your arguments and your concerns because they are contradictory.

Edited at 15:15 Fri 03/10/14 (BST)

Nothing wrong with tactical subs, as long as the fixture is completed with 8 v 8 registered players whats the problem, top teams shouldn't fear any sub, show some faith in your players and just get on with it.

As was said before the season started, i believe by chris, if we allow subs at all, we leave ourselves open to criticism and problems.

The only way to eradicate it, is to stop subs, but then that causes defaults.

As I have said before I am not sure it would cause that many. But in any case, certainly within the FBL scoring system, any default is a straightforward win, loss or draw.

I know you wanted to keep it to football but in something like the Ryder Cup if a player cannot complete the singles game a half is normally agreed. That would be the same here for any game if a time zone or any other reason genuinely stoped both parties from playing the game. If it was only one party at fault then its a straight win/loss.

However I am pretty certain no subs is a non starter.

That right there is what i am on about alan .... i will never agree with tactical subs but You say the top teams should have some faith in their players we do .... the so called smaller teams should have some faith the reason so many players leave clans is because captains take them out of games when they are arranging them for so called better players.

And just as many leave because they get hammered 13-2 or worse. Players will always leave for any number of reasons - but none of those are solvable in any of the discussions going on here.

That's why I left my clan, I always was taking myself out for the better players

You can all discuss this until the cows come home, however, you will never please 100% of people 100% of the time.

(My words of wisdom for the year done )