When someone judges atmosphere based on when a team scores stinks of the glory hunting attitude of fans which surrounds United. You don't judge a team's fans from when they're winning. You judge it when they aren't, and Old Trafford has nothing.

Yay, rant time.

Scoreline, given the way both teams played... probably fair.

Mignolet - Should have had a stronger hand on the attempted save for the second goal, but was left exposed a few times by the defence.

Johnson - Has looked tired for weeks, but today just looked plain lazy, he or Sterling should have been marking Hazard for the first goal, you don't give him that time and space. Never had much help all game from Sterling.

Skrtel - Suicidal at times, should always be goal side of your man especially someone like Eto'o one of the best finishers in the world, no matter what form he is in.

Sakho - Terrible on the ball and throws himself around too much.

Agger - Probably our best player today which is saying something, not his best performance today but was isolated down the left not getting much help.

Lucas - Completely ineffective today, got absolutely bossed by Willian, Oscar and Hazard.

Allen - Never got into the game at all, made no impact just like the last 5 or so games he played for us.

Henderson - Looked very tired and in need of a rest today but if you haven't got the backup there you simply can't do that, ineffective really but probably down to tiredness.

Sterling - Lazy. Never helped back, made about 3 or 4 bursts forward but had no end product.

Coutinho - Thought he could take on the world, passing was off, running into brick walls and again rather ineffective.

TBC

Perhaps a bit too critical, but I agree with what you've said so far ^

Suarez - No service really and when there was he had 3 or 4 players around him kicking the crap out of him, couldn't really make an impact no matter how hard he tried.

Rodgers - Throwing a teenage kid into a game of that high intensity and atmosphere at 2-1 down was a rather silly decision, we had Alberto or Aspas who could have easily done the job.

Sakho and Coutinho - Swapping shirts at half time is a joke, the amount of respect you lose and bad attitude you get from some people for doing that is mad, if you want it so bad wait til the end of the game, or in the tunnel away from fans or something.

We had a poor first half, Eto'o's challenge on Suarez was horrible, studs into his leg around or just below the knee, Kevin Nolan got sent off for similar on Henderson a couple of weeks back. He should have had a yellow at least for that and then he brought Suarez down in the box off the ball, should been at least a yellow for that too, he was lucky not to be sent off.

Ref was a joke not giving a pen but I expected no less from Howard Webb anyway.

All in all, we were poor Chelsea ran the midfield and Webb made us pay.

i judge as a neutral based on the fact ive been to numerous grounds
and like said its awesome the sound generated when they score is unreal better than new and old stadium when england score

Saw the Eto'o challenge, definitely yellow and possibly red. Depends on the ref. The second one every replay I can't see why it's not been given. It's not an effort for the ball, it's a kick out. That means it's violent conduct and a red card. The only thing I could understand the ref giving is a free kick since it's on the edge of the box, but it was inside. Penalty and a red and the ref isn't watching the ball, he's looking at the incident. Baffled.

until Suarez gets service he will be in-effective against the so called big teams

Chelsea had a bigger and stronger bench,,,,,,,,
it counted

but as Jose said
with no European football for Liverpool this season its showing with good solid match preparation, he questioned could Liverpool be as good if they were in Europe this season

a very fair point to

That's your opinion, I've been to stadiums and played across different sports and Old Trafford is not the best by far.

If you're talking atmosphere, I've been to lower division Rugby League grounds with more atmosphere than Old Trafford.

That's what I meant, if they aren't winning then there's nothing.

There's more atmosphere at a sunday league game than there is half the time in Old Trafford.

Edited at 19:02 Sun 29/12/13 (GMT)

75000 fans ok faust pmsl

yep ok

guess uve been to old trafford many times
and as i said im un-biased and have been numerous times to all grounds in the premier league all of the championship sides and many league 1 and 2 teams

formula 1
twickenham
many cricket games
4 bradord bull games
a few falcons games
and many many basketball games

so i kind of understand atmosphere
sorry its your opinion based on your understanding and thats fine

Liverpool in full song is also a class place full of emotions
and applause to them also

stoke when singing delilah

cardiff is an international where they just hate the english mega atmosphere

west ham when singing im forever blowing bubbles

arsenal totally boring along with spurs and fulham

number of fans mean nothing, it's all about the fans mentality and behaviour. You can't judge your opinion as unbiased, you could perhaps say neutral, but you can't say your own opinion is unbiased. That would be for others to judge.

Chelsea have a boring set, no creativity in their songs

here is a fact
75000 fans make alot of noise

your opinions are based on what ?

im a Sunderland fan and told you what i thought whether you agree or not, these comments are about my personal experiences and i base my observations on them

yours are based on what, have you been to Old Trafford

have you been to Stoke, Hull, Wigan both Sheffield clubs
etc and many many more

i have

Yes I have, home and away with a few others in the UK to boot. Have you been to the Luzhniki complex? Or the Greek Olympic stadium? You clearly have national experience, but you've not mentioned anything international. No I'm not a season ticket holder, I can't afford that and could've afford to go every week because I have university. There is a huge waiting list these days, it'd be a long time before I got one.

75,000 go awfully quiet when they're losing, and they leave before the game is over or even in Fergie time. However, smaller stadiums have had much better atmospheres. It doesn't matter how many you've got, it's about the noise they make.

If you want to use noise as an example, here's a bit of science:

http://talksport.com/magazine/big-picture/2011-08-25/loudest-fans-premier-league-revealed-where-does-your-club-rank

30,000 fans less, but a louder noise. Granted it was 2/3 years ago, but there's not really been any change since. And for the size of the stadium they have they aren't as loud as most others would be with the same stadium. Attendance figures do not equal atmosphere.

and like i said when United score 75,000 fans make a lot of noise
which is what ive said from the beginning

and yes to one of the greatest grounds in the world Camp Nou
on 5 separate occasions and yes not on tours but to watch games
once with 98,0000 fans
once to Valencia and once to Madrid

and the Atmosphere is not a patch on most top flight English Premier League grounds

being in the gods with no roof on most stadia, isnt my cup of tea

also having being a pro-coach in my time bringing through
Jason Steele now at boro and ex-Chelsea keepers Ross Turnbull both lads from Newton Aycliffe

i no a fair bit about football too, having coached at Darlington and Middlesborough, both the above i coached from 6 and 8 year olds.

i worked with one of the best goalkeeping coaches in the world
maybe google him Simon Smith

but hey i stated when 75,000 fans cheer when United score there is a lot of noise and a tremendous one at that, i really don't no what your argument is zante, let me tell you its a fact

i didnt say for 90 mins, i truly dont understand your point

Edited at 04:55 Mon 30/12/13 (GMT)

That when those 75,000 are silent , there's no atmosphere. It is quite clear what my point is as others have posted the same thing. You go to many other grounds and the atmosphere is there whatever the scoreljne. I've already shown united aren't the loudest even when they do score. I didn't just say a lot of noise because it's all relative

no zante you miss the point once more
in MY OPINION its United when they score
you can explain till the cows come what you think, buts its not in my opinion, you can back it up with lame facts all you want with silly websites, ive told you what i think, its not really a discussion about my opinion

ive been many many times and im sure some one didnt stand there with a decibel gun or device and measure it each time now did they..

im not being smart zante, ive told you its my opinion
i didnt say all the way through the game for 90mins did i

we beat Hull 4-0 a few years ago at the KC and when they started signing east stand west stand etc the noise levels were unreal

some one posted about the old stadium being better for atmosphere, i dont get that with open corners the sound echos round the KC even though they were well beat the noise levels were immense

on another note
some one said about standing at games
part of me agrees however, how were they special standing, kids couldnt see unless they were stood at the front
when a goal went in, the steps were dangerous, when the serge forward happened

the banter was better id agree, but with an open end at most stadiums then it was a shocker in winter or when it rained and walls to pee against wasnt the greatest

i like the new stadia maybe cos ive got older, i dunno
but ive met many people old and new and made long lasting friends through football

my love affair with football will always be there
24 years coaching
and 18 years playing


some of the greats ive watched, ive got to say
Giggs in flow is something special
Cantana his genius with a ball blaming a blade of grass for making him misplace a pass
Henry simply class
Bergkamp very similar to Van Persie class
Kevin Keegan and Liverpool in that era
Ipswich going back but what a class team
Gazza say no more

my emotions in 73 when Europes finest were beaten by an Ian Porterfield goal and one of the greatest saves ever made by Monte
i think it was the Colombian keeper who saved with both feet
what a moment, i had to watch it 4 or 5 times to makesure thats what he did

Beckhams free kicks (better than Carlos)

some of the greatest teams ever
Barcelona
Man Utd
Ipswich
Liverpool
Forest
Aresenal
loads more
even Newcastle under Keegan

You aren't understanding him either though Craig.

He is trying to say Atmosphere shouldn't be based on the 1 minute immediately after a goal, but the whole of the games throughout the season, whether the team win lose or draw.

I have been a few grounds myself...

Millenium stadium - cup finals, the atmosphere was electric as you can guess.
Old Wembley - As above.
Middlesbrough - Not so atmospheric but a great day out
Derby - Great atmosphere, great fans great laugh.
Wolves - Great atmosphere for the first half until they got trounced by us.
Old Trafford (away game) - Poor fans, we won 1-0 late in the second half and couldn't hear them all game.
Old Trafford Home game (England) - Again nothing special, and we gained World cup qualifacation that game too, only hint of anything good was when Becks slotted that free kick. (Vs Greece).
Nou Camp - I understand what you mean about the being up in the clouds but it isn't half an hostile place to be in a semi final haha.
Westfalenstadion - Was to watch Liverpool vs Alaves, great game great atmosphere. However my one regret is that I have never been back to watch Dortmund there.


Those are the ones that stand out the most to me, in particular Derby, that had a better atmosphere than United did.