FCL - General Discussion
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23:21 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
Let's say I am one for defaults and it's all my fault. If I don't play within two weeks I will lose the default maybe 15-0. With an extension Meh I only lose three points, might as well wait and play next week as I won't lose 15-0 and cause I can.
Edit- as you said, two weeks is more than enough.
How does it pander to them if it deducts points from them?
What advantage would there be for anyone? I don't see one, only punishment for not meeting the deadline.
What advantage would there be for anyone? I don't see one, only punishment for not meeting the deadline.
Let's say I am one for defaults and it's all my fault. If I don't play within two weeks I will lose the default maybe 15-0. With an extension Meh I only lose three points, might as well wait and play next week as I won't lose 15-0 and cause I can.
Edit- as you said, two weeks is more than enough.
23:30 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
But the 15-0 is a problem, it most likely over-rewarded the team not at fault.
and the 3 points isn't in stone, I would suggest a bigger deduction, and if, when played, they don't score that high (if they scored 0 anyway, they'd end up with no punishment), the remainder should be deducted from their team's total score that match.
and the 3 points isn't in stone, I would suggest a bigger deduction, and if, when played, they don't score that high (if they scored 0 anyway, they'd end up with no punishment), the remainder should be deducted from their team's total score that match.
23:34 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
The way defaults are now, a losing default punishes good players more so than poor players. Likewise, it rewards poor players more so than good players for winning defaults. Playing late with a deduction for the faulty would fix that.
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23:37 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
As a captain would you not try harder to avoid any defaults especially when anything up to a 15-0 is on the table? Anyone who gets a 15-0 against them deserves it as they have made zero effort throughout the fixture. Any captain or team that allow a 15-0 against there team shouldnt be captain. You could only ever get a 15-0 in your favour if you made a great effort to get the game done there for you've made two weeks worth of effort. Why should I have to make any further effort of my opponent couldn't make any within a set deadline?
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23:38 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link] defaults aren't there to decide wether you are good or not, if you can't be bothered to arrange a game and your the best player on the site you deserve to lose a default and depending how lazy you are depends on how large a scale.
The way defaults are now, a losing default punishes good players more so than poor players. Likewise, it rewards poor players more so than good players for winning defaults. Playing late with a deduction for the faulty would fix that.
23:39 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
Saying it rewards the innocent team too strongly is all the more reason to keep it that way. It puts pressure on the captain of the guilty party to make a sub or a swap to get the game played. It also gives incentive to captains to recruit active players.
But the 15-0 is a problem, it most likely over-rewarded the team not at fault.
and the 3 points isn't in stone, I would suggest a bigger deduction, and if, when played, they don't score that high (if they scored 0 anyway, they'd end up with no punishment), the remainder should be deducted from their team's total score that match.
and the 3 points isn't in stone, I would suggest a bigger deduction, and if, when played, they don't score that high (if they scored 0 anyway, they'd end up with no punishment), the remainder should be deducted from their team's total score that match.
Saying it rewards the innocent team too strongly is all the more reason to keep it that way. It puts pressure on the captain of the guilty party to make a sub or a swap to get the game played. It also gives incentive to captains to recruit active players.
23:43 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
"defaults aren't there to decide wether you are good or not,"
I agree, I think they're there to prevent unplayed games from affecting the team not at fault, for the better or the worse.
Even with the most effort made ever, if it was a not so good player winning a default against say, tinie, then no way should he get 15-0, he'd never have scored that had it been played, it's unfair on all the teams not involved.
that last question though,
"Why should I have to make any further effort of my opponent couldn't make any within a set deadline?"
a very good point, I have no answer.
Edited at 21:50 Fri 28/11/14 (GMT)
I agree, I think they're there to prevent unplayed games from affecting the team not at fault, for the better or the worse.
Even with the most effort made ever, if it was a not so good player winning a default against say, tinie, then no way should he get 15-0, he'd never have scored that had it been played, it's unfair on all the teams not involved.
that last question though,
"Why should I have to make any further effort of my opponent couldn't make any within a set deadline?"
a very good point, I have no answer.
Edited at 21:50 Fri 28/11/14 (GMT)
23:48 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
I agree that score wouldn't happen, but the differential and awarding of extra points is both a reward to the team that made the effort, and a punishment to the team that left a historically unreliable pool nomad like tinie (no offence! lol) in the fixture for two entire weeks!
Even with the most effort made ever, if it was a not so good player winning a default against say, tinie, then no way should he get 15-0, he'd never have scored that had it been played, it's unfair on all the teams not involved.
that last question though,
"Why should I have to make any further effort of my opponent couldn't make any within a set deadline?"
a very good point, I have no answer.
that last question though,
"Why should I have to make any further effort of my opponent couldn't make any within a set deadline?"
a very good point, I have no answer.
I agree that score wouldn't happen, but the differential and awarding of extra points is both a reward to the team that made the effort, and a punishment to the team that left a historically unreliable pool nomad like tinie (no offence! lol) in the fixture for two entire weeks!
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23:49 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
I see the possible 15-0 for a team who would have no hope of getting one the risk the captain who takes the better player on in the first instance takes. Do you as a captain take on someone unreliable but when they play they win huge or do you take on board someone who plays every game. If you take on the unreliable superstar then on your head be it when you get a 15-0 against you and your team.
23:54 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
Two seasons ago tinie lost to kris 10-5. I wonder if kris would ever get that result on default judging The players quality. So to give default points considering players ability is a bit silly in my opinion. Effort is what should be considered
"defaults aren't there to decide wether you are good or not,"
I agree, I think they're there to prevent unplayed games from affecting the team not at fault, for the better or the worse.
Even with the most effort made ever, if it was a not so good player winning a default against say, tinie, then no way should he get 15-0, he'd never have scored that had it been played, it's unfair on all the teams not involved.
that last question though,
"Why should I have to make any further effort of my opponent couldn't make any within a set deadline?"
a very good point, I have no answer.
Edited at 21:50 Fri 28/11/14 (GMT)
I agree, I think they're there to prevent unplayed games from affecting the team not at fault, for the better or the worse.
Even with the most effort made ever, if it was a not so good player winning a default against say, tinie, then no way should he get 15-0, he'd never have scored that had it been played, it's unfair on all the teams not involved.
that last question though,
"Why should I have to make any further effort of my opponent couldn't make any within a set deadline?"
a very good point, I have no answer.
Edited at 21:50 Fri 28/11/14 (GMT)
Two seasons ago tinie lost to kris 10-5. I wonder if kris would ever get that result on default judging The players quality. So to give default points considering players ability is a bit silly in my opinion. Effort is what should be considered
23:58 Fri 28 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
I agree effort should be considered first, to decide who's at fault, But the one 'not at fault' shouldn't gain from the fact that it wasn't played, they should get what they'd have gotten had it been played, other players who made effort and got it played had to settle for that. A possibility of gaining from defaults is how you end up with people playing for defaults for one reason, and it's unfair on teams not involved.
Edited at 22:01 Fri 28/11/14 (GMT)
Edited at 22:01 Fri 28/11/14 (GMT)
00:01 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
It's almost always transparent when someone is playing for a default, and they get punished the same as someone that doesn't make an effort. If you make the punishment big enough, everyone will try harder and harder to avoid defaults, which is what we all want.
I agree effort should be considered first, to decide who's at fault, But the one 'not at fault' shouldn't gain from the fact that it wasn't played. That's how you end up with people playing for defaults for one reason, and it's unfair on teams not involved.
It's almost always transparent when someone is playing for a default, and they get punished the same as someone that doesn't make an effort. If you make the punishment big enough, everyone will try harder and harder to avoid defaults, which is what we all want.
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00:07 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
If I got a default of say 6 against anyone on the site id be fuming. Two weeks of effort to get 6 points when I feel I COULD get more in any given match if it was played. I obviously could lose 9-6 or even greater but I could win and the fact the game wasn't played isn't my fault, I shouldn't be denied that chance of more. By making it judged solely on effort makes the result entirely fair in my eyes as you get what you've earned on both sides of the coin.
01:07 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
LOL
We haven't a different stance on defaults to anyone else, matches will be played hopefully by the original fixture pairings.
LOL
Deleted User
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01:11 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
We haven't a different stance on defaults to anyone else, matches will be played hopefully by the original fixture pairings.
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
01:21 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
We haven't a different stance on defaults to anyone else, matches will be played hopefully by the original fixture pairings.
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
Deleted User
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01:56 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
Too good Stu too good xD
We haven't a different stance on defaults to anyone else, matches will be played hopefully by the original fixture pairings.
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
Too good Stu too good xD
Deleted User
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02:02 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.Captain of magic black and crashed, Captain of pstorn and crashed captain of 15m8 and will crashed as well lol what a experience you have loooool
We haven't a different stance on defaults to anyone else, matches will be played hopefully by the original fixture pairings.
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
02:06 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
I actually find this quite funny that you can say a large default in frame count has little or no effect, the season before Chris took over the running of the leagues it was well documented that professionals only won the league thanks to a couple of large defaults, so large defaults in frame count can have a huge impact. In the same season the defaults would have only meant 2 points in the game concerned, which was the same 2 points that uprising had against that team. The extra points that professionals were awarded uprising could do nothing about and because they played all 8 games against the same opponents they were penalised and ultimately cost them the league. So all your statistics and explanations stand for nothing against the reality of what has actually happened in the FCL over previous seasons.
You obviously ignored the fact that frame count default altered the winner of the league a few seasons ago, that is an actual event that has happened that you do not need any other evidence to back up as it is a FACT. Uprising played a game and pros didn't. Uprising lost the league as they were more efficient in playing games and had no way of competing with the huge defaults that pro's received for not playing, that is why frame count doesn't work as it can have an effect that other clans have no control over.
responding to chris regarding our other unrelated debate,
I admit, I may have misunderstood what you meant by "primary".
Still not sure if I understand, first I thought you meant: can decide the winner of the league (happens in both scoring systems), then: can decide the league because of a 3rd party (happens in both scoring systems, shown in my recent match count example), now you act like it requires an undefeated team (which isn't even guaranteed, hasn't been one for 2 seasons) but in that case, an undefeated team in match count is really no different than a team in frame count with a comfortable lead, and in both cases, it's only the top team that's protected from defaults having an effect.
But it doesn't really matter if a default's unfair effect is primary or secondary. It still had an unfair effect.
You've yet to give a legit reason as to how and why frame count exacerbates defaults.
Edited at 21:12 Fri 28/11/14 (GMT)
I admit, I may have misunderstood what you meant by "primary".
Still not sure if I understand, first I thought you meant: can decide the winner of the league (happens in both scoring systems), then: can decide the league because of a 3rd party (happens in both scoring systems, shown in my recent match count example), now you act like it requires an undefeated team (which isn't even guaranteed, hasn't been one for 2 seasons) but in that case, an undefeated team in match count is really no different than a team in frame count with a comfortable lead, and in both cases, it's only the top team that's protected from defaults having an effect.
But it doesn't really matter if a default's unfair effect is primary or secondary. It still had an unfair effect.
You've yet to give a legit reason as to how and why frame count exacerbates defaults.
Edited at 21:12 Fri 28/11/14 (GMT)
I actually find this quite funny that you can say a large default in frame count has little or no effect, the season before Chris took over the running of the leagues it was well documented that professionals only won the league thanks to a couple of large defaults, so large defaults in frame count can have a huge impact. In the same season the defaults would have only meant 2 points in the game concerned, which was the same 2 points that uprising had against that team. The extra points that professionals were awarded uprising could do nothing about and because they played all 8 games against the same opponents they were penalised and ultimately cost them the league. So all your statistics and explanations stand for nothing against the reality of what has actually happened in the FCL over previous seasons.
You obviously ignored the fact that frame count default altered the winner of the league a few seasons ago, that is an actual event that has happened that you do not need any other evidence to back up as it is a FACT. Uprising played a game and pros didn't. Uprising lost the league as they were more efficient in playing games and had no way of competing with the huge defaults that pro's received for not playing, that is why frame count doesn't work as it can have an effect that other clans have no control over.
02:10 Sat 29 Nov 14 (GMT) [Link]
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
Blah blah blah B L A H LOL
We haven't a different stance on defaults to anyone else, matches will be played hopefully by the original fixture pairings.
LOL
When you've Captained for a FULL season without running away when the going gets tough then I'll pay any notice to you or your snide comments.
Blah blah blah B L A H LOL
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