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Edited at 01:08 Sun 07/08/16 (BST)

This is incredible...

BS have spent 3 and half weeks avoiding my player ric_flair in the FBL. They have had to remove two of his opponents from their clan due to not replying to messages or being inactive. Ric has tried to get the game played for the last 3 and a half weeks and now BS want a sub because fattmikee cannot meet ric's times...

I have refused to make the sub, stating ric has put all the effort in and it would be wrong to punish him by subbing him out of a game that he has solely put effort into. Ric has tried his best to accommodate mike, but can only go so far out of his way. It should be on BS to accommodate ric, not the other way around.

Yet i've logged on tonight to see that mike has been harassing my players to sub into the game against him because they have realised they have messed up not answering any of mine or ric calls for a sub/swap in the game earlier.

How can this be right. Them subbing in one of my players without a captain or vice captains permission. The player himself was unsure whether to sub in and only did so because mike was giving him abuse on the forums saying he had refused and he was "saving the messages for the default".

Even if my player wins, which im sure he will because mike is absolutely awful, the result should not stand because i refuse to sub Ric out of the game. Why are my players being punished for putting in 3 and 1/2 weeks of effort into a 4 week game?

Bumping this as action should be taken against Mike. He attempted to trick my player into playing the FBL game instead of ric by telling him it was some friendly games...

Blatant bullying and unsportsmanlike tactics from Mike in an attempt to win and avoid default because they know they've put no effort in for 3 and a half weeks.

Need some kind of league runner response to this.

Should know how bs work by now, huts has never run his clan any different. If he tried to get games played throughout the fixture like he does in the last couple of days then there would never be any issues.

Sorry Klien, i'm just a spectator but Huts had this situation last season and back then i told him to take the default as one sided fixtures, in my view that is what defaults are mainly for but when the shoe was on the other foot, he complained (last season vs same opponents and this set) that the game wasn't being completed.

If a clan is being inactive/non interactive then they should do what they can without subbing the oppositions player as their not at fault otherwise should be defaulted

Just a quick one really.

Do we really need 4 weeks for fixtures? From what I have saw just this last week, and from what I have heard past season or two it is just making it so easy for teams to play for a default.

Don't get me wrong I believe that if someone has tried to get a game played and only because of their opponent did it not happen then sure. But the deadline is there for both teams to try get the game played up until that final point. Not up until the Friday before deadline and then claim they are playing for the deadline wother 2 days left.

People say it was too tactical with subs etc surely this is more tactical. Surely if fixtures were reduced to 2 weeks again then it reduces the risk of this. Release 2 fixtures instead of 4.

I know it's only a couple of fixtures but surely this shows a major flaw of people playing for it because rightly they feel aggrieved by the way they have been ignored and unable to finish their game woth their opponent.

If it was 2 weeks then the emphasis that's usually on the last week will still be there. But there won't be all this he's been off 3 and a half weeks malarkey. Makes captains do the subs sooner and players get to.play quicker games get done sooner etc.

Just a suggestion. It's worked before can work again.

Thought I'd bring this forward too.

@mich

a) Not really needed, two every two weeks would work but it is practically the same as now but it is split in half, like a piece of cake.

I would prefer two weeks to four personally but in the long run it is the same season end date so either works.

b) I only approve of defaults in one sided fixtures as i told Uprising last night, I neglected them, Asked for a sub nicely but said that if they want to default then its fine and i wouldn't have a complaint as it was our fault and technically should have been punished by a defeat in the default as that is what it is for.

Active players who are on almost daily, making some effort shouldn't be subbed (in their case Imran) as they're not at fault but as we was at fault we have to accommodate Imran or face a defeat at defaults. I respect that as a guideline and agree as Imran shouldn't feel pressured to sub out as the active player.

In the case of equal effort (providing times, not 'play now' as i had an opponent who says that and if you're not free then it hasn't done anything to help) then you should do what you can to complete the match and even more so if you're at fault.

Unfortunately times has changed and their is less trust in the league and more politics which may/may not have been in Pool before last few seasons but most important why trust goes is manipulation, When you have been manipulated you lose faith in them and it is hard to trust their agendas.

I prefer ancient but can't go back there

Pick your 8 players then 3 further players who can be used as a sub any time after the second week in the fixtures but only with genuine reason and agreed to by the other captain. You don't have to state who you are subbing in until the sub is finalised just state your intention to sub.

Example.

Mich and dgen can't get on at the same time and with Mich being the least active I request I sub mich out for one of my substitutes.

Vixen says Yeah go on.

We make the sub and announce other player with a choice of 3 previously selected players.

Long as BOTH captains agree i feel it is a good idea as takes politics out of the frame.

In my opinion Swaps/Subs should only be done if the players can't meet (e.g. activity or timezone).

I agree mich, with 4 week fixtures we are encouraging players to not be immediately bothered about their fixtures, increasing the chances for players to disappear without communicating, giving more licence to players and their Captains respectively to accuse their opposition of lack of effort. (even though 2/3 subs made, messages sent by all involved and if opponents communicated more thoroughly then matches may have been completed)

I also think that a Deadline given as midnight needs to be maintained and enforced regardless whether a player can be only available till say a few hours before. We aren't in the process and surely never should be able to dictate when we play up till...the deadlines are there for a reason.

Two weeks for 2 fixtures of fcl is sufficient, I'd also do away with Fixtures overlapping as that has its own downfalls especially with removing players and creating potentially a snowball effect. If fixtures were released one after the other, players would also be more aware with what's actually going on.

Defaults are nothing but a shambles and an easy option for a player or team to say...sod it we tried. Trying and determining your own prefabricated Deadline time...is not trying imo. If a players unavailable up till the allocated time then efforts should be made to cover that time section. If not then change the deadlines to 7pm and we'll all be able to follow suit.

Oh I can see that's really got underneath your skin. Nobody denied the default time . And nobody was dictating it. The fact is nobody even attempted to arrange a time with me despite my availability being on your own thread in black and white. Other than a sarcastic 'yo play now' from Curt. Nor did I receive a message from mr_tumble, who didn't even log in until I had left anyway! (At 8.20 mind, not 7pm)

I've sent in my default information, and if the last 3 hours and the odd one or two days in between the entire FOUR WEEK fixture that I was consistently available for goes against us, so be it

I'll send ours as soon as the_king84 sends me his messages.

Edited at 15:10 Mon 08/08/16 (BST)

Anyone would think you purposely played for this default by avoiding dead_silence, browsing on your phone (how was he supposed to know you were on your phone only...did you tell him? Or just let him waste his time posting on our thread wondering what and where you were!) and on 2 occasions you conveniently logged on when he logged out. So less of the crap, both teams made effort and yeah if we both tried a little harder we would not be in the situation.

I don't know what more I could have done to help assist the fixture, you had 2/3 subs...a 4th player listed as a sub too. If you were that bothered about playing mr_tumble was he informed about your cut off time? Did you message him after all it was you who became unavailable 4/5 hours before the set Deadline?

Takes two to communicate, you can accuse 1 of the 4 players of being slightly inactive but you weren't online every day neither.

Denied us a sub too whilst the fixture was still technically active.

Yeah you caught me, in 4 seasons on pool, 3 on snooker, this being my first default E V E R , I'm the kind of person who plays for defaults.

But I suppose that's the exact path your way of thinking would go since you don't play any games for your own team at all and try your hardest to wriggle out of every situation where you could sub into a game.

I very clearly explained to Curt on your own thread, that if he arranges a time with me during the vast window I'm available I would gladly log on! Not once did he, he just expected to play there and then in his minute time frames when he decided to come onto the server.

He knew I was available Friday night .. YOU told him I was browsing throughout the day. Had he messaged saying 'Hey I'll be on tonight at such and such a time' I wouldn't have been on my phone, I'd have logged onto my computer. Instead later that night he sent a message saying 'Play now.. yo' .. And you know I was logged into the actual server all of Saturday night, because you were on there yourself (I dunno HOW you found the time) .. Then I was available all day Sunday too, and stayed over an hour longer than I should have. But yeah, I played for that default..

This has nothing to do with me and what I do, now you're just clutching at straws, get personal with me...I won't stoop down to your level.

Have I once got personal with you? No, so stop that nonsense straight away please.

Your reputation, record, previous history on this site or snooker has no bearing and relevance to the fact we both failed with getting this fixture completed. You can sit there playing your blame game but the fact is we tried, yet failed to complete our fixtures.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing and next time I won't be half as helpful as I have been with this fixture. I should have left letsgochamp in the fixture and made you wait another 20+ days with an opponent who I'd been informed was unavailable due to having a faulty laptop. Instead I removed the said player and that ultimately impacted on his other fixtures too. From now on regardless if any of our players are unavailable we'll just wait until week 4.... This is the gratitude we get.

Sod it.

Sure you could have done that, you may as well have, the outcome would have been the same.

Just like allypunk getting subbed out vs mich who was off 9 days then 5 days and was late for their arranged time when ally made it clear he had to leave for 9.30.

^That's gratitude for ya.

I agree Mich

if fixtures had been 2 weeks id be playing by now
I was signed up on the Sunday before fixture release

only to find its a 4 week fixture release and half a season gone
I've had to sit 4 fixtures out before I can play FCL

if it had been 2 weeks I could've played and helped out i may have even played in this fixture that nearly went to default
but no I have to sit out 4 weeks

in my opinion its ridiculous it was always if u were signed before fixture release you could play
but and its a big but, teams were asked to submit final teams the day before

common sense could've prevailed however rules are rules
and I have honoured them

so to me 2 weeks would've been better
but hey I'm only little Cwaigy

when reading above

the I said, she said, they said, about people being available and games not being played this is an age old thing

its been going on for years and years, teams leaving subs till the last minute (its is tactical always has been)

but also, it takes 2 to organise games, why do people rant on forums to gain extra merit for defaults

total rubbish in my opinion

I think that a captain who doesn't make a sub after seeing another player online and their own isn't then that captain and his team should be docked 50 points see how that
shuts people up

its gone on season after season, 90% of crap on threads are captains and vices from week one
putting enough crap on threads making themselves look good for defaults

if they spent that time sorting games out, it would be applauded, I don't exactly hit it off with faust, but hey
how many times do you read, I will sub him and her
the minute he can

example to be followed in my opinion

surely a captains role is to sort games out and put in active players, if you put in inactive players who are brilliant over an active player who isn't so good

you should be docked points every single time

I read above about people having never had a default
neither did I in over 8 years of playing clan pool
but guess what, really good captains ensured I got one
no fault of my own

its a game, people treat winning this league and looking good far to seriously that's the problem

also when reading about this site going down hill

I wondered after a discussion in the chatroom the other night

the question was asked how much money, do clan teams and the leagues contribute financially to the site

I said nothing at all not a penny, unless your a premium user

the person said wow, that's amazing really
where can you join and play in leagues and have everything organised for you and pay nothing
then have admin and moderators sorting threads out
for nothing

he said they must spend ages, editing and deleting posts
and they do it all for nothing

he then said there is something very wrong here, when 99% of rubbish on this site is caused on threads

how right he or she is

I actually thought long and hard about this
it was a great question to be asked