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Deleted User
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12:46 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
kev04 said:
ipotalot said:
14 makes sense it worked well last season but 16 is definitely too many, we want to be playing most of the games not half of them.


The main problem is the amount of defaults we had last season. Thus most of the rules we have looked at changing are interlinked with causes of defaults.

We are trying to help by providing extra depth for subs, more flexibility with regards to who can play who (fixture swaps) and possibly the ability to correct subs one has made early in a fixture.



You can have 20 players in a clan if they aren't the right players who are reliable and really want to play the games you will still get defaults.
You can have 8 players in a clan and not get one default all season because they are the right players.
Captains already keep unreliable players on their teamlists because they have got 14 so I think making squads bigger isn't solving anything.

Giving swaps at the end of a fixture will get loads of games played and bigger incentives for completing and bigger punishments for defaults will push captains more to not let it go that far.
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15:14 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
didnt read the above...but totally agree about having the right players not quantity of players
ab_rfc
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18:11 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
ipotalot said:
You can have 20 players in a clan if they aren't the right players who are reliable and really want to play the games you will still get defaults.
You can have 8 players in a clan and not get one default all season because they are the right players.
Captains already keep unreliable players on their teamlists because they have got 14 so I think making squads bigger isn't solving anything.

Giving swaps at the end of a fixture will get loads of games played and bigger incentives for completing and bigger punishments for defaults will push captains more to not let it go that far.


totally agree
heres a quote from Jo after Vikings had no defaults last season. check the bit in bold.
jooodles said:
I think the vikings should be very proud of themselves, to get all games played (the only team in the whole of the league to have no defaults) with only 11 regular players and to lose only one match is a great achievement, i would like to say a big thank you to those that made a great effort to play their games and get us to where we are.
dgeneratio
dgeneratio
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20:27 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
anyway i talked to kev and we agreed to use 15 players as a trial for next season, if it works fair enough we can keep it, if not we can lower it, no harm done

although i like your idea horse it makes the season at least a month longer if not more.
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20:34 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
dgeneratio said:
although i like your idea horse it makes the season at least a month longer if not more.


I suggest you reread it then - it adds at most one week to the final set of fixtures!! And none if, god forbid, every one gets their games played.
Deleted User
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21:54 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
12 players you still get defaults
14 players you still get defaults
so i think 16 would be better for every team it should be team choice but no more then 16 players to one team
Deleted User
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22:06 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Well the options are either 14/15/16, reducing the number will most definitely not be beneficial to the number of defaults.
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22:15 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
just be reading a lot of this
as all captains should know it easy saying that when you have 11 players coming on all the time that is good as many good teams dont have that problem cause they end up with the best players
it all comes down to new clans you ask players they say can i join your team you say yes
then you never see them for months
so i think you all need to think about this not only going on with the players you had it hard for new clans if you be they you should no
_pro__frog_
_pro__frog_
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22:20 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
judging by the fact that some clans have already got 16 players then this rule should be made official as people will be let down when they are removed from the clan
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22:34 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
big_mouse said:
just be reading a lot of this
as all captains should know it easy saying that when you have 11 players coming on all the time that is good as many good teams dont have that problem cause they end up with the best players
it all comes down to new clans you ask players they say can i join your team you say yes
then you never see them for months
so i think you all need to think about this not only going on with the players you had it hard for new clans if you be they you should no


That's what the friendlies are for with new clans, you sort out your team before joining FCL and with bigger squads the big clans have loads of reliable, quality players that could be playing every game for another team.
horse10000
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22:37 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
horse10000 said:
The need to get rid of defaults is the main thing everyone want as time and time again people question the random defaults that are produced.

Suggestion to hopefully eliminate the majority of defaults.

Each team puts in list of 8 as per now.

In the first 2 weeks of the fixture the captains can sub/swap put back in players whatever is required to get games complete. If all games are complete at the end of 2 weeks, increase the bonus points for completion to encourage it.

All games that are incomplete after 2 weeks, instead of going to default, the league allows these games a third week to complete when the next set of fixtures are put out.

In this third week any of the players who have not played from either clan can ask any of the players from the other clan who have not played in the fixture so far to play a game to get fixtures complete. Captain has not got any control in week 3 as to who plays who as players can post the game and play it without any input from the captains. Suggest captains send messages to all clan members who are available to play outstanding fixtures advising the opposing clan members they need to look out for and post on the clan thread so no one can say they didn't know.

If captain wants certain players to play he will have to get them to play in weeks 1 and 2.

Any games that are not completed after week 3 would suggest that one or both clans have inactive players and league runners can look into and deal with accordingly. Any games incomplete after end of week 3, none of the clans who have been unable to get games played get any points thus eliminating defaults. Also if games are not played and there is no excuses as players have been active and on at same times but not played, penalise the teams involved points this should encourage them not to let it happen again.

(Would need an exception that if one clan could prove they had tried constantly and the other clan made no effort or were inactive the league runners would make a call at there discretion)

If we have clans with 12/14/16 members it should not matter who ends up playing games as long as games get played, if a clan wants you to be in it, they should be wanting you to play any game that is required against another clan.



Bump
_pro__frog_
_pro__frog_
Posts: 12,419
22:38 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
ipotalot said:
big_mouse said:
just be reading a lot of this
as all captains should know it easy saying that when you have 11 players coming on all the time that is good as many good teams dont have that problem cause they end up with the best players
it all comes down to new clans you ask players they say can i join your team you say yes
then you never see them for months
so i think you all need to think about this not only going on with the players you had it hard for new clans if you be they you should no


But surely you would have all of you best players playing, with some average players as back up for as and when you need them?!
That's what the friendlies are for with new clans, you sort out your team before joining FCL and with bigger squads the big clans have loads of reliable, quality players that could be playing every game for another team.
horse10000
horse10000
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22:39 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
I agree with others that you can have 20 in a clan it doesn't mean there will be no defaults. You could just as easily have 8 reliable players to make up a clan and have no defaults.

I posted the above yesterday as a solution to hopefully reduce defaults but all the discussions have been about clan numbers rather than a solution to get rid of defaults.

Would love others thoughts on the above and also would like to see of others come up with suggestions as to ways we can get rid of defaults.
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22:42 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
2 weeks is plenty to get games played why give a third?
Deleted User
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22:48 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Pro frog-people want to play games not be back ups and if you check the division 1 squads they don't have weaker back up players they have 14 top players...soon they will be taking another 1 each off the clans trying to catch up....another 2 each if it went to 16
horse10000
horse10000
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22:49 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
ipotalot said:
2 weeks is plenty to get games played why give a third?


To get rid of defaults by allowing any players to play games after the two week deadline and to penalise teams who fail to get games played. If teams are run properly this third week would not be required
_pro__frog_
_pro__frog_
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22:52 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
Well it is up to the captain to make sure that everyone gets their fair share of games. If they play for a team and dont get picked then that is bound to happen.
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22:58 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
horse10000 said:
ipotalot said:
2 weeks is plenty to get games played why give a third?


To get rid of defaults by allowing any players to play games after the two week deadline and to penalise teams who fail to get games played. If teams are run properly this third week would not be required


Good player tries to get game played for 2 weeks, bad player dodges. Both teams get punished, good player doesn't get to play and the other team get to grab whoever is online to play!?

Can't see it working at all and end of the day 2 weeks to send a message and spare an hour for a a game shouldn't be a problem for anyone if the incentives are there and more swaps are allowed towards the tail end of the fixture.
horse10000
horse10000
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23:34 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
dgeneratio said:
anyway i talked to kev and we agreed to use 15 players as a trial for next season, if it works fair enough we can keep it, if not we can lower it, no harm done

although i like your idea horse it makes the season at least a month longer if not more.


It only extends the league by one week, as the third week for the fixture is only in place when next set of fixtures are released, therefore it is only the last fixture set that the extra week would be noticed.
horse10000
horse10000
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23:36 Tue 14 Jun 11 (BST)  [Link]  
ipotalot said:
horse10000 said:
ipotalot said:
2 weeks is plenty to get games played why give a third?


To get rid of defaults by allowing any players to play games after the two week deadline and to penalise teams who fail to get games played. If teams are run properly this third week would not be required


Good player tries to get game played for 2 weeks, bad player dodges. Both teams get punished, good player doesn't get to play and the other team get to grab whoever is online to play!?

Can't see it working at all and end of the day 2 weeks to send a message and spare an hour for a a game shouldn't be a problem for anyone if the incentives are there and more swaps are allowed towards the tail end of the fixture.


No one is arguing that good/reliable players get them done in the 2 weeks easily. But as the last 13 seasons of clan leagues have shown there is a large percentage of games that go to default and this will always happen unless we try and change something so that these games get played and therefore defaults are not required.
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