FCL - General Discussion
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00:11 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
Yeah that's what I'm on about turtle, it's not currently 10 bonus points in FCL, it's 20.
Even though the majority of people posting an opinion wanted 10 the last time it was brought up.
You brought up FBL, I think you mean you want the indiv match wins to go straight to the league table, instead of using them to decide team fixtures (what it currently does), it doesn't count frames at all anymore other than to decide indiv matches. I don't like it, but yeah that's what they did to it, and sorry but every last game (frame) does not make a difference this way. (once you've won 5 frames, the remaining 3 are meaningless, they don't even have to be played)
I agree with the underlined ^, would be more accurate than what it's doing now, and I have no problem with one of the leagues not counting frames, but I think another should, with no compromise, but a bonus of 10's better than 20, I'll take it.
Edited at 21:35 Thu 19/06/14 (BST)
Even though the majority of people posting an opinion wanted 10 the last time it was brought up.
You brought up FBL, I think you mean you want the indiv match wins to go straight to the league table, instead of using them to decide team fixtures (what it currently does), it doesn't count frames at all anymore other than to decide indiv matches. I don't like it, but yeah that's what they did to it, and sorry but every last game (frame) does not make a difference this way. (once you've won 5 frames, the remaining 3 are meaningless, they don't even have to be played)
I agree with the underlined ^, would be more accurate than what it's doing now, and I have no problem with one of the leagues not counting frames, but I think another should, with no compromise, but a bonus of 10's better than 20, I'll take it.
Edited at 21:35 Thu 19/06/14 (BST)
01:07 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
Erm yeah sorry did mean 20 for the FCL haha. Although i wouldn't be against 10 either.
FBL yeah i did mean that individual matches go straight to the table. Either that or pure frames i think would be best.
FBL yeah i did mean that individual matches go straight to the table. Either that or pure frames i think would be best.
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01:13 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
One other issue - I feel the cup format needs addressing if it is to remain for next season. Simply because you cannot draw in the FCL matches but can draw in the others. Seeing as the FBL cup matches are extended frames we could simply extend it to 6 frames of each, making 18 overall enabling a 9 - 9 draw?
01:20 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
Thing is some feel very strongly against counting frames, keith and chris for example, and I'll admit it wouldn't be very fair for 2 leagues to do it, leaves no room for what they want.
I'm gonna repeat a suggestion I made a couple of months ago:
I know there are at least 3 different opinions out there about how the leagues should be scored. On a team match basis, on an individual match basis, or on a frame basis.
We have different reasons for feeling the way we do. For some it's about team ethic, they feel one way makes it more of a team game. For some it's about accuracy, which method will eliminate more of the luck factor. Some want to give every clan a chance, and some just want it that way because that's what they view as a game.
I'm not out to start another discussion about which way is best, noone's gonna win over anyone else's opinion anyway, and we're all entitled to our opinions.
But with all the leagues we have, isn't there room for every opinion to have its way somewhere? As it is now, one method (team matches as a basis) has a say everywhere, that's right, in every single league and cup it has at least a compromise working in its favor.
Here's one idea, that could do this without many changes.
FCL, no change at all except drop the bonus points for team match wins. It would be decided by frames won throughout the season.
I'm gonna repeat a suggestion I made a couple of months ago:
I know there are at least 3 different opinions out there about how the leagues should be scored. On a team match basis, on an individual match basis, or on a frame basis.
We have different reasons for feeling the way we do. For some it's about team ethic, they feel one way makes it more of a team game. For some it's about accuracy, which method will eliminate more of the luck factor. Some want to give every clan a chance, and some just want it that way because that's what they view as a game.
I'm not out to start another discussion about which way is best, noone's gonna win over anyone else's opinion anyway, and we're all entitled to our opinions.
But with all the leagues we have, isn't there room for every opinion to have its way somewhere? As it is now, one method (team matches as a basis) has a say everywhere, that's right, in every single league and cup it has at least a compromise working in its favor.
Here's one idea, that could do this without many changes.
FCL, no change at all except drop the bonus points for team match wins. It would be decided by frames won throughout the season.
01:21 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
FBL, no change, but for the scoring. The points awarded for indiv match wins go straight to the league table, no points for team match wins. It would be decided by indiv match wins throughout the season.
SL and Cup could still cover the team match wins.
There's room enough we can all have our way, make everyone happy.
SL and Cup could still cover the team match wins.
There's room enough we can all have our way, make everyone happy.
01:23 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
You say that all games should count the same but you prefer to have the top players games meaning more than the others? The table i showed when you took each individual game to mean exactly the same had UB and Pros even on 14 points, yet Pro's who have top players who win by large margins more often than UB when counting frames with bonus points end up taking second by 137 points from UB in the end yet they did not win any more points if you took each game to count the same which clearly shows the difference that top players make to the likes of pros and uprising. Yet UB had players who could mix it up with the big boys and win as much games but not by as many points. You say that football and goals is not the same thing. In football you play to score goals and whether you win 1-0 or 10-0 you still get the same amount of points for the victory so that each game has the same impact on the league title.
In pool you play frames and the person who wins the most frames wins the game, so it is exactly the same as goals in football. Nothing to do with potting balls in a frame as you suggest as that has no impact on anything. So the person who wins a pool match either 15-0 or 8-7 should score exactly the same amount of points for the league purpose so that all games have an equal impact on the league table which it doesn't now.
I know you feel that way, I disagree. I think 10-5 should mean more than 8-7. A 15-0 should be more important, it's the most decisive score possible, an 8-7 is all but a tie, to give one side 100% of the points is extremely inaccurate of what happened.
I agree that all games should mean the same., but I see frames as games. Approach it with my view, and counting only indiv match wins leaves a lot of games uncounted.
You say that your format has no bonus points, technically that's true, and easy to agree with if you see indiv fixtures as games the way you do. Seeing frames as games the way I do, I could argue that your format is nothing but bonus points because it doesn't count the games. It counts a group of games, just like the bonus points for team fixture wins.
If you see frames as games like me, the football comparison isn't applicable, it becomes: Points in a game are like balls potted in a game of 8ball.
Really didn't want to get into this again, just wanted to remind everyone what the majority seemed to be in favor of (a bonus of 10).
Edited at 21:05 Thu 19/06/14 (BST)
I agree that all games should mean the same., but I see frames as games. Approach it with my view, and counting only indiv match wins leaves a lot of games uncounted.
You say that your format has no bonus points, technically that's true, and easy to agree with if you see indiv fixtures as games the way you do. Seeing frames as games the way I do, I could argue that your format is nothing but bonus points because it doesn't count the games. It counts a group of games, just like the bonus points for team fixture wins.
If you see frames as games like me, the football comparison isn't applicable, it becomes: Points in a game are like balls potted in a game of 8ball.
Really didn't want to get into this again, just wanted to remind everyone what the majority seemed to be in favor of (a bonus of 10).
Edited at 21:05 Thu 19/06/14 (BST)
You say that all games should count the same but you prefer to have the top players games meaning more than the others? The table i showed when you took each individual game to mean exactly the same had UB and Pros even on 14 points, yet Pro's who have top players who win by large margins more often than UB when counting frames with bonus points end up taking second by 137 points from UB in the end yet they did not win any more points if you took each game to count the same which clearly shows the difference that top players make to the likes of pros and uprising. Yet UB had players who could mix it up with the big boys and win as much games but not by as many points. You say that football and goals is not the same thing. In football you play to score goals and whether you win 1-0 or 10-0 you still get the same amount of points for the victory so that each game has the same impact on the league title.
In pool you play frames and the person who wins the most frames wins the game, so it is exactly the same as goals in football. Nothing to do with potting balls in a frame as you suggest as that has no impact on anything. So the person who wins a pool match either 15-0 or 8-7 should score exactly the same amount of points for the league purpose so that all games have an equal impact on the league table which it doesn't now.
01:23 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
If this is refused, at least drop the FCL bonus points to 10 (majority opinion)
01:27 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
It is not a majority opinion, just your opinion and has been pointed out several times there is a reason why it is 20 that has been proven to work. And like 0 points or 10 points has been proven not to work. So if you wont accept a format where all games mean the same and no bonus points are required there is no point in changing the 20 points which is a proven figure to work for the reason it is in place.
If this is refused, at least drop the FCL bonus points to 10 (majority opinion)
It is not a majority opinion, just your opinion and has been pointed out several times there is a reason why it is 20 that has been proven to work. And like 0 points or 10 points has been proven not to work. So if you wont accept a format where all games mean the same and no bonus points are required there is no point in changing the 20 points which is a proven figure to work for the reason it is in place.
01:31 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
If you change FCL to each game is worth 2 points and then if your clan wins 5 out of the games they win the fixture and your team gets 2 points you do not require any bonus points.
There is no reason why FBL where you pick players into there best game type cannot be a format where all frames count and again no bonus points are required.
You then have SL where team size is smaller and number of games are smaller and bonus points for events are in play which gives you 3 completely unique types of events for clans where all tastes should be catered for.
There is no reason why FBL where you pick players into there best game type cannot be a format where all frames count and again no bonus points are required.
You then have SL where team size is smaller and number of games are smaller and bonus points for events are in play which gives you 3 completely unique types of events for clans where all tastes should be catered for.
01:32 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
call it what is keith, an individual match or fixture, it's not one game in my opinion, a frame is
The way you keep calling it a game, shows me that you haven't considered what I have to say.
You said: "In pool you play frames and the person who wins the most frames wins the game, so it is exactly the same as goals in football."
I say: In pool you play frames and the person who pots the 8, 9, or most balls wins the game.
Again, goals are like balls potted, if you can stop and look at it my way.
The way you keep calling it a game, shows me that you haven't considered what I have to say.
You said: "In pool you play frames and the person who wins the most frames wins the game, so it is exactly the same as goals in football."
I say: In pool you play frames and the person who pots the 8, 9, or most balls wins the game.
Again, goals are like balls potted, if you can stop and look at it my way.
01:37 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
It is not a majority opinion, just your opinion
not true, last time it was brought up I counted the posts, just can't remember where.
You've talked all around it, might as well be said, you want it at 20 so as to take a league that counts frames and make it a league that counts team match wins instead.
One of 3 opinions about how it should be done.
Edited at 22:55 Thu 19/06/14 (BST)
It is not a majority opinion, just your opinion
not true, last time it was brought up I counted the posts, just can't remember where.
and has been pointed out several times there is a reason why it is 20 that has been proven to work. And like 0 points or 10 points has been proven not to work. So if you wont accept a format where all games mean the same and no bonus points are required there is no point in changing the 20 points which is a proven figure to work for the reason it is in place.
You've talked all around it, might as well be said, you want it at 20 so as to take a league that counts frames and make it a league that counts team match wins instead.
One of 3 opinions about how it should be done.
Edited at 22:55 Thu 19/06/14 (BST)
01:42 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
You're suggesting pretty much what I am then, but you want your way to move from FBL to FCL?! and Fcl to stop counting frames like it always has so fbl can start again?! You already have what you want, why does it matter where it is? Ego maybe? Looks like it to me. To switch them around requires much more drastic change.
If you change FCL to each game is worth 2 points and then if your clan wins 5 out of the games they win the fixture and your team gets 2 points you do not require any bonus points.
There is no reason why FBL where you pick players into there best game type cannot be a format where all frames count and again no bonus points are required.
You then have SL where team size is smaller and number of games are smaller and bonus points for events are in play which gives you 3 completely unique types of events for clans where all tastes should be catered for.
There is no reason why FBL where you pick players into there best game type cannot be a format where all frames count and again no bonus points are required.
You then have SL where team size is smaller and number of games are smaller and bonus points for events are in play which gives you 3 completely unique types of events for clans where all tastes should be catered for.
You're suggesting pretty much what I am then, but you want your way to move from FBL to FCL?! and Fcl to stop counting frames like it always has so fbl can start again?! You already have what you want, why does it matter where it is? Ego maybe? Looks like it to me. To switch them around requires much more drastic change.
01:45 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
No i am just practical FCL is where the default problem lies for giving fair default scores and to change to my format sorts that issue out straight away. Purely as FCL is 15 frames it fits better to that format, no other reason.
I want a different scoring format for each and i want no bonus points awarded but to do that again it fits in better for the formats as per what i posted.
I want a different scoring format for each and i want no bonus points awarded but to do that again it fits in better for the formats as per what i posted.
01:58 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
I know you think counting frames makes defaults a bigger problem, I disagree. Regardless, FBL isn't any less likely to have a default than the FCL is anyway.
I don't see why it fits one any better than the other, but I do know that drastic change makes people angry, and what you're asking is very drastic. What I proposed isn't at all.
I don't see why it fits one any better than the other, but I do know that drastic change makes people angry, and what you're asking is very drastic. What I proposed isn't at all.
02:17 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
Been, if you put half as much effort into running a league, as you do campaigning for your version of one - I'm sure it would be great! We'd enter it, as we would all other available leagues. I'd even help you out if you want?
I can't help but feel that the current runners should run their leagues how they believe they should be run though!
I can't help but feel that the current runners should run their leagues how they believe they should be run though!
03:40 Fri 20 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
I think most would agree that 4 leagues and a cup would be too many if I was willing to do that.
I can't help but agree with that last part to an extent, but when the same runner runs all 3 leagues he has room to give a little. He's always asking what people think about this or that, leads one to believe he wants to go with the majority on some things doesn't it? That he wants to try and make everyone happy? What I suggest would do that as far as opinions on scoring are concerned. Everyone would have it their way somewhere.
Edited at 00:45 Fri 20/06/14 (BST)
I can't help but agree with that last part to an extent, but when the same runner runs all 3 leagues he has room to give a little. He's always asking what people think about this or that, leads one to believe he wants to go with the majority on some things doesn't it? That he wants to try and make everyone happy? What I suggest would do that as far as opinions on scoring are concerned. Everyone would have it their way somewhere.
Edited at 00:45 Fri 20/06/14 (BST)
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18:05 Mon 23 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
Can we have a rough date when the New season will be starting please?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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19:59 Mon 23 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
I agree with Kieth on scoring,its called KISS keep it simple stupid what a pun but true.
Here is a list of clans who have left becouse of stupid rules and a changes for the most part.To bad this site was taking over by all these new wanna be league runners and Mods.And i remember when there was enough clans to have 2 div. now we lucky to have 1
Old Clan list
------------------
Fraggles
Wolf pack
Lions den
F.P.D
Mafia
Inpossibles
Mouseketeers
Vipers
Pool Sharks
fighting eagles
snooker squad
and im sure this is not all of them.But untill all the rubbish all that is being posted is stopped. I really don't see much of a future looking ahead.And ill admit i have posted rubbish,but only when provoked .
It seems to me that ever one relys on mods to clear up trouble's posted on threads when tbh it lies in hands of League Runners
Here is a list of clans who have left becouse of stupid rules and a changes for the most part.To bad this site was taking over by all these new wanna be league runners and Mods.And i remember when there was enough clans to have 2 div. now we lucky to have 1
Old Clan list
------------------
Fraggles
Wolf pack
Lions den
F.P.D
Mafia
Inpossibles
Mouseketeers
Vipers
Pool Sharks
fighting eagles
snooker squad
and im sure this is not all of them.But untill all the rubbish all that is being posted is stopped. I really don't see much of a future looking ahead.And ill admit i have posted rubbish,but only when provoked .
It seems to me that ever one relys on mods to clear up trouble's posted on threads when tbh it lies in hands of League Runners
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20:22 Mon 23 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
NONSENSE ^^^
The reason they met their demise were due to either their players or Captains losing interest, wanting the title but not the responsibility. Very convenient to blame the scoring system or rules to be followed, it all stemmed down to their reliability issues.
Add 'IT' (Incredible Trash) (to your PUN)
The reason they met their demise were due to either their players or Captains losing interest, wanting the title but not the responsibility. Very convenient to blame the scoring system or rules to be followed, it all stemmed down to their reliability issues.
Add 'IT' (Incredible Trash) (to your PUN)
23:20 Mon 23 Jun 14 (BST) [Link]
krazyash_07, reliability issues can be caused by lack of players, I think you would be surprised due to the hassle in clans how many players have given up or always say this is my last season in clans, I hear it all the time, why do you think I gave up clans.
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FCL - General Discussion
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