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FCL - General Discussion

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Deleted User
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00:32 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Would personally like to see Matty and pirate_steve get the chance to do this FCL runners have traditionally handed over to their choice of successor as their last responsibility, Jay wouldn't just give it up to any old person.
Also think that chris has his own league to do with as he sees fit so would rather see a different set of opinions and ideas offering more variety and think matty and steve deserve the chance, also do still think too much would change in the long run with chris, horse and jooodles.
That being said I still think they would do a fantastic job as well and we would be lucky to have either set of runners.
Just casting my 'vote' so to speak.

*2 FCLs starting in competition would be disasterous for clans so hope this is resolved quickly and painlessly
bluenose1872
bluenose1872
Posts: 22,512
03:00 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Already been stated that by Pirate that they will have things ready to go pretty much the same time span that you gave Chris. I find this nothing more than a power trip, the whole reason that the TCL was so close to the FCL format was because i refused on countless occasions to hand it over to you and a few other mods. Sniper will go along with whatever as long as he is not banned from the league so what ever he says is all brown nosing really isn't it.

I see people who have in the past sat there and argued blue in the face that others need chances and so on and now those people are going back on what they said so long ago. To be honest if i knew what your intentions where i would have probably kept on running the league and had Jack and Matty with me so then i could leave after a season and quite rightly it would be them running the league. They have shown potential, give them a chance, you have your league right now, a few months is not going to hurt.

I would like to thank Matty and Jack though as Matty asked me to stay on as an advisor but after all the rubbish i don't even think i could do it...
bluenose1872
bluenose1872
Posts: 22,512
03:02 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Question - I am an apparent cheater does that mean i am banned from the leagues? My turn to be a little annoying to league runners for once and not on the receiving end.

Also thank you to the players who have sent their support to me and what not or posted here, especially to horse10000 & the__priest as we have had more downs than up in the past.
Deleted User
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08:58 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
I'm not quite sure how there can be any changes to the league long term. As has been seen in recent times, there have been minor rule changes but often these end up getting reversed at some point because they haven't improved anything - or indeed made something else worse.

Potentially anyone could make huge wholesale changes to the FCL - format, clan sizes, scoring however it would be pointless as the clans would rightly exercise the ultimate vote and simply refuse to take part and go elsewhere. Any league on here belongs to the clans and those that play in them.

I believe in a policy of non-interference by League Runners. They are there simply to handle information, produce fixtures, update results and act as a very last line of arbitrator of the rules when participants cannot resolve issues themselves. Nothing else. I also believe that these clan leagues should be open and fun and inclusive to all members - so therefore to answer bluenose's point there would be no bannings in the same way that there has not been elsewhere.

Whether or not the above constitutes 'too much change', or is different to what has happened before, is for each to decide for themselves.
Deleted User
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09:02 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
No, the leagues should not be inclusive of all members, some people are banned and for damn good reasons too. When members break the rules there should be consequences or all hell would break loose.
Deleted User
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13:12 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
No, the leagues should not be inclusive of all members, some people are banned and for damn good reasons too. When members break the rules there should be consequences or all hell would break loose.


The leagues are hosted by the site. The site is used to facilitate the arranging, and playing, of the league games. Therefore the leagues must be subject to the same general rules on behaviour and fairness as the site in general. That is an accepted principle amongst those that run this site at the highest level.

If anyone does anything to warrant a banning from the league then that action must be against one or more site rules. That is how you deal with such issues in a way that benefits everyone using the site.
fuunky
fuunky
Posts: 2,094
13:26 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Fair points Chris. I agree, but if this is the case what happens with the FBL as surely the same rules would need to apply for all the leagues.
Deleted User
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13:34 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Fair points Chris. I agree, but if this is the case what happens with the FBL as surely the same rules would need to apply for all the leagues.


Yes indeed. I can't think of any reasons why it wouldn't or can't be that way.
Deleted User
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14:16 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
No, the leagues should not be inclusive of all members, some people are banned and for damn good reasons too. When members break the rules there should be consequences or all hell would break loose.


The leagues are hosted by the site. The site is used to facilitate the arranging, and playing, of the league games. Therefore the leagues must be subject to the same general rules on behaviour and fairness as the site in general. That is an accepted principle amongst those that run this site at the highest level.

If anyone does anything to warrant a banning from the league then that action must be against one or more site rules. That is how you deal with such issues in a way that benefits everyone using the site.


That's not true at all, anybody is free to run their event how they see fit as long as they don't break site rules.
Say somebody keeps leaving clan games half way through will admin ban them for that? League rules are nothing to do with site rules.
Deleted User
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14:32 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Should be a CODE OF CONDUCT adhered too for the Leagues and the site. Runners deal with the Leagues and the Mods/Admin deal with Site issues.

Easy to differentiate.
Deleted User
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14:36 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Excluding someone for personal reasons and banning someone are two different things. As you say, anyone running an event can choose to not invite, or exclude, anyone.

Banning individuals based on actions they take is a separate issue. In your example there are far better ways of resolving issues than banning. Firstly no captain is going to consistently play a player with such a history. Secondly any action taken that potentially cheats or disadvantages any other member is using the site to achieve that goal. That is therefore against the site rules in such circumstances and any member can rightly therefore expect the protection of the site that they have signed up to. As I said, that is an agreed principle and already covered by site rules.
Deleted User
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15:30 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Fair points Chris. I agree, but if this is the case what happens with the FBL as surely the same rules would need to apply for all the leagues.


Yes indeed. I can't think of any reasons why it wouldn't or can't be that way.
I agree with this here, should be same standard.
Deleted User
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16:47 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Excluding someone for personal reasons and banning someone are two different things. As you say, anyone running an event can choose to not invite, or exclude, anyone.

Banning individuals based on actions they take is a separate issue. In your example there are far better ways of resolving issues than banning. Firstly no captain is going to consistently play a player with such a history. Secondly any action taken that potentially cheats or disadvantages any other member is using the site to achieve that goal. That is therefore against the site rules in such circumstances and any member can rightly therefore expect the protection of the site that they have signed up to. As I said, that is an agreed principle and already covered by site rules.


Players who have such a history would still get clans to take them on because they have good stats, league runners should be able to take action against people who break the rules of their competition same as they would in any event.
They aren't banning anyone from the site or any site events so the rule you quoted doesn't cover it they are just banning them from their event nobody is getting cheated or disadvantaged.
Admin also need a different level of proof to ban say a multi-user. People have been caught out playing on 2 accounts in teams before, admin didn't have enough proof to ban from the site and wouldnt anyway because they are only playing friendlies but it was obvious enough for a league ban
Deleted User
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17:01 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Regarding players leaving games. As far as I am aware it has been an accepted practice, rightly or wrongly, and there has never been any league rule previously regarding it. So presumably there can have been, and could not be, any bannings relating to this.

Regarding the rest, without going into any specifics at all, I will just say you may be misinformed. Site rules do fully cover the scenarios mentioned.
Deleted User
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17:04 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
can i just ask why we questioning chris like he enemy he prob knows the clan league (fcl) better than most as he was envolved so surly he should get a chance maybe with matty and steve.
Deleted User
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17:14 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
can i just ask why we questioning chris like he enemy he prob knows the clan league (fcl) better than most as he was envolved so surly he should get a chance maybe with matty and steve.
Not a bad idea Kenny, SL was hosted by jooodles, horse10000, and chris right? So why not have matty, steve, and chris do FCL
Deleted User
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18:33 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Why not have matty and steve run fcl like arranged and not have chris muscling in to everything? Has his own league and matty and pirate offered to share fcl but he refused would rather try and force them out by starting a rival league knowing that it will descend into farce and one party will have to do the decent thing and pull out (not him)
Sniper you're so transparent you only want chris to run things so you get allowed in fcl again.
staffie he is wrong on the point being discussed that is why he got questioned if you personally don't know enough to debate things then don't question those that do.
Deleted User
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18:40 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Why not have matty and steve run fcl like arranged and not have chris muscling in to everything? Has his own league and matty and pirate offered to share fcl but he refused would rather try and force them out by starting a rival league knowing that it will descend into farce and one party will have to do the decent thing and pull out (not him)
Sniper you're so transparent you only want chris to run things so you get allowed in fcl again.
staffie he is wrong on the point being discussed that is why he got questioned if you personally don't know enough to debate things then don't question those that do.


i know enough thanks and i ready to listern to matty and steves views and give it ago afterall only a game.
Deleted User
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18:42 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
Regarding players leaving games. As far as I am aware it has been an accepted practice, rightly or wrongly, and there has never been any league rule previously regarding it. So presumably there can have been, and could not be, any bannings relating to this.

Regarding the rest, without going into any specifics at all, I will just say you may be misinformed. Site rules do fully cover the scenarios mentioned.


Not an accepted practice sure a member is currently banned from fcl for causing defaults by leaving games repeatedly over different seasons.
Haven't been misinformed on anything thankyou I know that statement was made to make yourself out to be more in the know than us normal users but just shows you cant answer the points made. The fact that plenty of mods play in a league that bans players and have done for at least 7 seasons including yourself btw disproves you instantly
Deleted User
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19:16 Thu 26 Sep 13 (BST)  [Link]  
If that is the case then it shows exactly why bannings do not work. Because there have been clear examples of players leaving games just because they are losing or not playing well. No rules on it have been enforced because there are no rules. Whether it then results in a default is neither here nor there because the rules allow a substitution to be made where a player leaves a clan to avoid the default anyway. If the player is not removed from the clan having acted that way, therefore not allowing a substitution to be made and resulting in a default then that is a clan issue and not a league one. Indeed in the same way as the clan actually selecting the player in the first place is a clan issue.

Not quite sure what mods playing in a league that bans players is meant to prove or disprove instantly? I stated what my view on individual bannings is and explained my reasoning (as far as I can do) - even agreeing with part of what you posted where it relates to personal exclusions. Anyone can read it and either agree or disagree with it.
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