FCL should change to as per 2nd option. The number one cause of arguments on clans is FCL defaults this would remove that which would make a huge difference to the clan league as the constant arguing about defaults is tedious.

It also means no bonuses etc required for winning and the team who wins all their games or most games will always win the league like 90% of sport leagues in the world.

I disagree with the notion that the fbl scoring system has "virtually removed at a stroke the negative effect of defaults".

Whether an indiv match can earn 2 points, or 15 points, if there's 8 indiv matches it is still 1/8th of the team match being affected either way.
I could even argue that the fbl style gives defaults more weight, because of its black and white style of scoring, not many options to choose from when deciding the default.

Does the fbl style make the default decision simpler? yes
Does it reduce the negative effect of a default? no

when u say games, its confusing, that could mean anything.
I think you mean team matches
The fbl is already ran that way, you want 2 seperate leagues that run just alike?
The main point I was trying to make today is that there's room for everyone to have their way somewhere.

Edited at 22:04 Thu 01/05/14 (BST)

The FBL system has virtually removed the negatives of the default system. As all defaults in FBL only have an impact on that particular match between 2 clans. The defaults are easily done and unlike FCL where some thinks it should be 15-0 others say 10-0 and other say 7-3 and they are down to interpretation of what is effort etc. It is very easily to see who has made most effort for a 2-0 or if very similar a 1-1. This only impacts on the match between the 2 clans it has no impact on the overall league score where the 15, 10 or 7 from FCL example above all have an impact and as was shown 2 seasons ago, pros only won it because of high default awards where there nearest rivals had played games and scored less. Thus why that scoring format is perfect for FCL and would stop most arguments before they even start especially when defaults are involved.

No FBL has been a test case this season it has always fitted FCL better thus why saying it should be for that format next season. The FBL where we are currently playing 6 frames would become the format that you like where most frames wins. So a team winning 8 games all 6-0 will get 48 points. There nearest rivals win their fixture 25-23 so would get 25 points. This season both teams would just get 2 points so it is completely different and the format you like where all frames count to the overall league. Advantage is neither format requires any bonuses involved. One format is 100% pro team win and the other format is 100% pro every frame counts to win.

So your saying it has less of an impact because you only count team matches.
Looking at it that way, I'll admit it gives a chance of having no impact at all, like when the team match was already decided anyway.
But it also gives a chance of a greater impact too, if the default happens to decide the outcome of a team match. Remember that unless you play twice, counting team matches is effectively a knockout.

Edited at 22:20 Thu 01/05/14 (BST)

I'd be happy with that, if fbl also went to 10 frames while it made the scoring switch. The reason behind my belief is accuracy, and I don't think 6 frames is enough for an accurate outcome.

Think that is why Chris put 6, 8 or 10. The advantage of 6 is it is easier for defaults but like you say 10 may be better if we are doing every frame counts. Maybe split the difference at 8 to provide a balancing act.

Would be good if we could get agreement on these 2 formats as I do believe it would help a lot of the negatives and arguments which is in the clan leagues just now.

On the subject of defaults in a frame based scoring system, I really liked the idea of chapster's panel. Start with a probable outcome had it been played, then deduct points from that based on effort made. It would greatly reduce the effect unplayed games have on the league table.

why would you need any default panel when 2 points are at stake
it can only be 3 options within reason
no effort, lots of effort and similar effort

in a 2 point outcome awarding a default score would be easy

as for arguments
people who blatantly cause defaults should be booted from the league there in

surely a requirement to be in a clan is to play games
not when it suits one individual, to sit and wait till the 13th or 14th day forcing the other team to make a weakened sub

its wrong for captains to list players who have been offline for 8 and 9 days before a fixture is released then sitting for 10 or 11 days to make a sub

these are standard reasons for so many argument on threads
not about default scores

didnt your team pick a player that had quit 4 days b4 release this set

not talking about in the 2 points system, talking about in a frame based system (the current fcl if you will, but was really talking about keith's proposed fbl for next season).
and the panel wouldn't consider effort made, that part would be for the runners as always. the panel would give the runner a probable score (had it been played) to get started with.

I have two games to play - one vs you (a top player) and one v player z (a really poor player). If I am not active and make little effort just for these two weeks I potentially lose both games by default 15-0. In reality, how many players that get their games played score 15? That is not fair on other clans in the League.

Now in a 2 points for a win scoring system, in the exact same circumstances as above, I lose 2-0. That is exactly the same as any other player scores by playing and beating their opponent. There is no advantage to anybody, or disadvantage to any other clans in the League.

There are also problems in starting from a predicted score. Not for me as I will just get reduced down to zero, but for my opponents who are totally limited on what they can achieve based on a subjective view of their ability. If you (beenjammin) and player z were in clans that were level on points, why would you deserve to win the League over the clan containing player z based on earning a bigger default score from the exact same set of circumstances?

An issue that would need considering if the FCL changed format would be how to decide the playing order for game types. Clearly each player would want to make sure they played their own favourite game type either first or second rather than risk losing before they even had a chance to play that game type.

can people not have a discussion without the funky clown
another reason for many negative vibes on threads
joe read what i posted
its a reason that needs addressing

The simple answer is to use common sense then and not play the game. All too often I see clans make a 'weakened' sub then complaining about it. If you feel you are being wronged just stand your ground and let it go unplayed.

well your on about what causes defaults and 20 percent of a fixture were unplayable because ud picked someone whod already quit, halfway through a game aswell i think

That is one game that you are using as an example. I would agree with his point that there are certain clans and certain players that consistently wait for 11 or 12 days then force there opposition to sub in a weaker player. This is clearly unfair. The answer as it stands would be stand your ground with original player and let it go to default which has been against what most clans try to do. If we changed format clans may be less likely to use this method as it may go against them if clans stand up to them which in reality is the proper outcome.

now be a good lad
i dont pick any players joe
so i really dont get you
i play for MBz and was asked to vice captain
and i have never picked any player to play
hence i enjoy clan pool

but to be fair joe, its people like you that, make pool a very uncomfortable place to be, it wasnt so long ago your team blatantly cheated, short memory joe

so less the crap eh

ive never cheated craig, and good job u dont captain a side, it all ends in tears and cat videos, i remember sinners